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Author Topic: EVM15B's in a EVTL606 Cab  (Read 28852 times)

Mike McDonald

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Re: EVM15B's in a EVTL606 Cab
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2005, 06:27:42 am »

Hey Sum
There are sites on the 'net that have thiele-small parameters for pretty much every loudspeaker ever built.  You could likely look up the parameters for your D130's and plug them into a program like WIN ISD and it could spit out the optimized cabinet for you.
Try www.thiele-small.com  This is providing that your D130's are actually coned as D130's not some oddball cone kit.
The nice thing about most of this junk, is if you have a cabinet of specific volume, you can optimize tuning of the box to better suit your driver.  I was always under the impression that the TL606 (a 3.2 cubic foot gross cabinet) was originally designed for the EVM15L.  That doesn't mean you can't any another driver in it, nor does it mean that's the only box you can drop a 15L in.  You can, however, optimize tuning of that TL606 cabinet for whatever driver you decide to put in it by adjusting port length.  You do need the thiele-small parameters for the specific driver you're loading into the cabinet so you can figure out optimum tuning frequency for the box/driver combination.  I don't mean to tell you things you might already know, I just don't know you, so I don't want to spew out a bunch of technical jargon and sound like some kind of techno-goof.
Cheers
Mike
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Elliot Thompson

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Re: EVM15B's in a EVTL606 Cab
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2005, 09:02:35 am »

Just for the record.

The EV EVM 15B = Bass Guitar

The EV EVM 15L = Lead Guitar

The EVM 15B is the only speaker being reconed today. They
stop offering recone kits for the 15L due to  being very
weak in the bass section (15L = Lead).

In addition to the 15L being steered towards EV's 4025, &
4050 horns. The EVM 15B will work in either a reflex,
or folded horn, whereas the 15L offers piss poor response
for a reflex.

If you want to stick with JBL, look into the JBL 2226.
The D 130 is what you don't want. The QTS is
lower, than the EVM 15B, and the xmax is non existant
on the D 130.

Go to JBL's website and download their vintage TS PDF
chart. I can tell you there's a 50/50 chance that the
TS Parameters on Thielle Small's site will be correct.

I can't tell you how many incorrect numbers are offered
on that site. And, I'm comparing their numbers to the
original spec sheet from the manufacter.

Best Regards,
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Elliot

Mike Smith

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More EV lore from The Dawn of Time
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2005, 12:41:38 pm »

Hi Sum,

I'm not sure why your 15B spec sheet would say that the TL606 was optimized for the 15B; the old, original EV builder plans that I dug up from my files list the 15L as the recommended driver for both the vented box and 4050/4025 folded horn designs. That was also my recollection after working for EV dealers and using those speakers for many years. The 15L and 15B T/S parameters were close enough that EV used to admit you could use either; I used to know why the 15L was the first choice but that information seems to be lost in the mists of time (I can't remember!). Keep in mind that my building plans and charts are from the late seventies and EV, like every other manufacturer, can change their position to suit whatever engineering or marketing reasons they come up with.

I used to have single and double 15" TL boxes, loaded at various times with 15L and 15B speakers, as well as others. The 15Bs were slightly deeper and "warmer" sounding, and the 15Ls were cleaner but did not have quite the low frequency punch. I do remember achieving the "flower" condition on over-powered 15Ls that Too Tall mentioned, while the 15B would tend to either buckle at the dustcap or shear off completely. We ran EVMs in 4050 and 4025 folded horns too, as well loading them with EV DL15Xs, but that's a whole 'nother ramble...

Regarding the cone appearance, the 15L has (or had) the cone with the rings of light ribs. The 15B cone was smooth (no ribs), a little darker in color, and slightly thicker and more "felted".

Neither of these speakers is going to keep up on low bass with a contemporary JBL 2226, B&C 15TBX100, or Peavey Low Rider 15, but they could work fine in a general-purpose midbass application, or in a musical instrument rig.

That's about enough of that! Good luck.

Mike Smith
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Mike Smith

Event Technical Systems

http://www.eventtechnicalsystems.com

Ivan Beaver

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Re: More EV lore from The Dawn of Time
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2005, 12:52:46 pm »

while the 15B would tend to either buckle at the dustcap or shear off completely.
***********************************************
Whenever I reconed EVM15B's I would dip the neck of the cone into a 50/50 of clear lacquor and thinner.  This would stiffen up the neck where they would buckle (at the dustcap).  This could not be done on the 15L as it would them become to brittle and shatter.  The extra thickness of the 15B cone kept it from becoming too brittle.
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Mike Smith

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Re: More EV lore from The Dawn of Time
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2005, 12:59:51 pm »

Hi Ivan,

That's what EV ended up doing, too. They kept going to stiffer and stiffer lacquer until by the time they got to the 400 watt ProLine 15B, they were applying a coating to the cone apex under the dustcap that was almost like epoxy!

They really rode that 2.5" voice coil horse way, way too long, but they made some do-re-mi so what the heck.

Best regards,

Mike Smith
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Mike Smith

Event Technical Systems

http://www.eventtechnicalsystems.com

Antone Atmarama Bajor

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Re: More EV lore from The Dawn of Time
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2005, 01:44:49 pm »

Wow 2.5" voice coil I thought they had 4" coils in those things.

Elliot I'm just using my old D130s for playing electric Guitar so I'm not to worried about their lack of low end heft.

    I have some 2225's that I use in some reflex cabs for part of a modular armature FOH system.  Sometimes I play bass through them but they still roll off pretty quick after 50Hz.  

    The only Thing I've ever played through to get startling results for my 5string bass is a pair of my BT7's.  I doubt there is anything on this earth that is significantly smaller than some bass horn design that can produce those Frequencies with any sort of authority and SPL.  Too bad the Labs subs or BT7's take up so much stage space.  I guess one could use them as drum risers.  But then miking would be a problem.

    Unless some magical Compact Bass transducer is invented,  I think all of us bass players will have to deal with whats convenient and not optimal to our instrument, but if the sound system is good then we can go direct and the FOH guy can supply the audience with the bottom (unless he's one of the guys who turns on the high-pass for every channel).

Anyhow Its all a compromise of some sort.
Sum

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peter.golde

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Re: More EV lore from The Dawn of Time
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2005, 01:54:53 pm »

recone the EV's and load them into a pair of Tuba36 Slims, the two together should beat the Lab for output and extension. Awsome bass rig, or half of one anyway. I know what your talking about, I liked playing through a corner loaded Lab, once you get a taste you dont want to go back to anything less. Twisted Evil
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Mike McDonald

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Re: EVM15B's in a EVTL606 Cab
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2005, 07:57:59 pm »

That Bill fitzmaurice guy...
He sells the plans for those Tuba subs.  They seem interesting.  So many seeming sound snobs have tried to belittle those cabinets that I'd like to give them a try just for the heck of it.  I'm burdened with all these "classic" drivers.  If the stupid things would ever fail, I could possibly convince the wife to let me try some of the newfangled speakers Elliot is talking about. I'd drop a set of those Eminence HL10's in one of Bill's Tuba 24's and see how they sound.  It never ceases to amaze me that the big bass cabinets, these days are driven with 10" and 12" woofers.  I once heard that EAW cabinet that runs a pair of 12", and they absolutely blew me away.  For an old man, it's difficult to get my brain around the fact that you don't need a big stack of eighteens to get respectable bass.
I wanted to say thanks for the heads up about EVM15L recones.  I didn't know you could only get the 15b kits.  It's been a while since I reconed them.  The move makes sense, the 15L is a little anaemic in the bottom end.  I still like the sound of it, though.  Also, thanks for the warning about the thiele-small site.  Fortunately, I haven't had to refer to it, since I have my original literature, but the whole idea of the site really turned me on.  I thought it was a great idea in theory...

Sum,
I think if you check the spec sheet for the EVM15B (in my opinion an excellent sounding, durable speaker regardless of voice coil diameter) you will notice that the graphs and spec's and so on list the TL606 cabinet as the cabinet that they ran the tests in.
This has nothing to do with the fact that the cabinet isn't necessarily optimized for that driver.  It just gives you a concept of what to expect with the driver mounted in a cabinet like that.
When you look at many woofer response graphs, they show what response would be like mounted in some standard sized cabinet.  If the driver wasn't mounted in some kind of cabinet, the response curve would look terrible.  You'd likely look at the response curve of the woofer and say "That's not a woofer, it doesn't even have any output below 150hz!"  The cabinet has a huge effect on the bass response of a woofer.

Man! This is a very informative site.
Cheers
Mike
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Elliot Thompson

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Re: EVM15B's in a EVTL606 Cab
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2005, 10:46:52 pm »

Hey Mike.

I try to keep whatever information of a product
I own. In the event, the manufacter no longer
offers any documentaion of the item, I don't
need to google the web for answers. I bought
the last 200 watt EVM 15B from a store's
showcase window 9 years ago. As with all Mom
& Pop stores, they keep the original box, &
paperwork.

Hanging around with alot of Vintage Home
Audiophiles in the late 90's, I found out
only 15B recones were being made. So, if
you had the 15L reconed, it would be a 15B

I figure Sumsound is going by TL606 being
used, in the response graphs on the 15B.
Looking at my sheet, its the only box used
unlike the EVX 180 B that offers 6, 8, & 10
cubic feet enclosures.

Yeah. Twelves have become the norm for hornloaded
subs these days. I remember alot of horn designers
always saying xmax, was the limiting factor, why
they needed to use fifteens & eighteens.



Sumsound,

It was only until I seen your post in regards
to the BT 7 I realized, you weren't using EVM
for subs. If you want something ultra low, and,
compact, why don't you checkout the Contrabass.
Usable to 14 Hertz. I think it was servojohn,
who said he was using a pair for his bass.


Best Regards,
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Elliot

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Re: EVM15B's in a EVTL606 Cab
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2005, 08:10:44 pm »

Does anyone have a copy of the EV TL606 cab plans that they can scan and send to me? I have recently come into a number of these cabinets loaded with EVM-15L. They were used as subwoofers in a small touring rig for nearly 20 years before I recieved them. I need some way to figure out what sort of driver I can throw in there when the EV drivers finally crap out. Also if anyone has EVM-15L data sheets as well. I also acquired some EVM12L drivers as part of the deal. One of the EVTL606 is making some mighty fine bass for a friend's bass rig for the time being.
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