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Author Topic: EVM15B's in a EVTL606 Cab  (Read 28854 times)

Antone Atmarama Bajor

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EVM15B's in a EVTL606 Cab
« on: April 26, 2005, 01:19:39 pm »

     Hey I have a couple of used EVM15B's one of which I toasted but thats a different story.  I just had a couple of EV Spec TL606's built for them as a bass rig.

    I was testing the good one out (Ampeg pro3 275 @ 8 450 @ 4) and everything seemed Hunky dory.  But If I try to boost my Bass Shelving control Like 6dB and Hit a low note hard.  The 15 will make a sound like some one Shorting out an electrical socket.  

    Am I just bottoming out the coil I've never heard a smacking coil make that loud of a sound before.  I practice through some good Ole EVM12L's in a EVspec TL806 box.  I've never made them bottom out and I've boosted the hell out of the low end and driven them hard for hours.

    The Xmax of the drivers is .13in for both 15 & 12.
The only other thing I can think of is that I may have a 100Watt model but there is not Power Handling marked on the basket just a stamp with serial and model.

    Does anyone here know if a 100Watt model EVM15B can be re-coned with a 200W or 300W coil?  Or am I stuck with the physical limitations of this particular basket/magnet gap Assembly?

 I know these things roll off pretty quick around -3 to 5dB at 50Hz.  The head has no high pass feature, If it is a 100Watt model  I guess my head is a poor match and I'll have to re-cone or go a different route.

Sum    
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peter.golde

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Re: EVM15B's in a EVTL606 Cab
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2005, 02:42:04 pm »

Orange County Speaker or EV should be able to recone that driver for 400 watts, never heard of the 100 watt version, I thought they were 200 watts origonally. The driver is probably bottoming out due to an old beat suspension. These drivers are worth reparing. IMHO
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Elliot Thompson

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Re: EVM15B's in a EVTL606 Cab
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2005, 02:43:44 pm »

Electrovoice never made a 100 watt EVM 15B.

They made a 200 watt, and, the 400 watt (EVM 15B Proline)

Also, the EVM series are instrument loudspeakers. They
are not, I repeat not woofers. With the EVM 15B offers
a - 3dB @ 60 Hertz, not 50 Hertz.

Best Regards,
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Elliot

Ivan Beaver

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Re: EVM15B's in a EVTL606 Cab-actually--
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2005, 03:31:51 pm »

I used to have quite a few of the "100 watt" versions.  They were OEM from Ev and i used to get them through a local MI/pro dealer.  I was told (and I believed also) that they were the same as the EV200watt versions.  I think Kustom used to use them. They were stamped OEM on the back 100Watt.  I believe this was so as not be confused with the regular EV product.  They ARE the exact smae thing as I reconed them with proline parts many years later.  This does not make them a proline-as there are other advantages to the proline (heatsink among others), but they are an upgrade from the EVM line.
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Antone Atmarama Bajor

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Re: EVM15B's in a EVTL606 Cab
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2005, 04:58:46 pm »

Yah I know the F3 of the cab is like 63Hz unless you use a step-down plug and EQ the thing.  Theoretically the Cab will put out 50Hz about 6dB down at maximum Rated power.  I would never consider these things a sub.  Maybe Mid bass (I use these for a Bass rig).

    The guys at A Brown Soun' In Marin think it could be a worn Spider too.  

    I haven't been in the Market for a 15" in a while but I haven't seen to many High output 15's with an Fs of lower than 40Hz.  Are there any Driver Alternatives that you guys know of that might Be a suitable Xchange for the EVM's That could drop in to the TL-606's

    Has anyone here had any real world experience with a JBL 2242?  I have an old 2245 in a 4518 particle board 30Hz Cab (8cu' with three big ports in it used for Cinema installs).  I wanted to find out If I could Load That cab with a 2242 instead scince the 2245 Is a little Wimpy as far as SPL and power handling (It almost does it for 5 String But I gotta Push it prety hard) Compared to the EVM12L's and Piezos for my Bass rig top box, which I have to back off substantially to have any sort of Balance.

Sum
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Elliot Thompson

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Re: EVM15B's in a EVTL606 Cab
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2005, 06:12:25 pm »

Doing a quick caculation with the box you mentioned

2245 tuned to 30 Hertz =  - 3dB @ 39.15 Hz

2242 tuned to 30 Hertz =  - 3dB @ 79.09 Hz

2241 tuned to 30 Hertz =  - 3dB @ 46.01 Hz

Peavey Low Rider 18 tuned to 30 Hertz = - 3dB @ 43.51 Hz

If your heart is set on JBL, buy the 2241. If you
want to save some money, and get better results,
Peavey Low Rider 18.

At 400 watts
The 2242 will be louder from 65 Hertz and up.
The Low Rider will be louder from 60 - 35 Hertz
The difference between the two = 2 db's

Thats a 2 db dip on the 2242 from 60 - 35 Hertz
compared the Low Rider 18. And, a 2 db gain over
the Low Rider 18 from 65 Hertz up.

To be honest, your better off just building another
single 18 cab than replacing. EVM's are nortorious for
being very loud, so, you'll need a dual eighteen to
keep up with an EVM.

Best Regards,  


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Elliot

Mike Smith

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Re: EVM15B's in a EVTL606 Cab-actually--
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2005, 04:15:09 pm »

Hi Ivan,

The 100 watt EVMs were upgraded to 200 watts when EV changed the voice coil lead wire termination. They originally twisted the VC ribbon wire around the tinsel lead, and crimped or soldered it. They found that by attaching a wide beryllium/copper strip to the leads they could double the power handling. The 400 watt Pro Line drivers achieved their power handling through the use of a hi-temp coating that reinforced the voice coil windings. EV also applied Teflon to the pole piece and top plate of the Pro Line drivers to "lubricate" occasional voice coil rubs due to excessive excursion. You can put the 400 watt kits in the older speakers, but they may not quite shake out the same as the correct Pro Line motor.

The old EV eighteens were either 100 watts, or 200 watts, can't remember offhand; but the funny part was they were sold for a while with 4 ohms being the standard impedance. Crown DC300As ate those guys like popcorn. Those were the days.

400 watts was about the most they could squeeze out of that motor size. The 2.5" coil size was left over from the old Alnico days; EV put their pole piece on TOP of the Alnico slug, Jim Lansing made his voice coil big enough to go AROUND the Alnico.

Best regards,

Mike Smith

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Mike Smith

Event Technical Systems

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: EVM15B's in a EVTL606 Cab-actually--
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2005, 05:35:48 pm »

Thanks for the info on the older speakers.  I didn't look at the attachment to the tinsel leads, just cut them out and proceded with the reconing.  Nice to learn a little more history.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

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dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Mike McDonald

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Re: EVM15B's in a EVTL606 Cab
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2005, 09:17:31 pm »

If you are looking for an alternate driver for the TL606 and would like to stick with the "classics" you could try a Gauss 4583A.  They are available, but get one that's in working condition.  They last a good long time, but original Gauss recone kits are very rare.  Since the 4583 has dual spider, and four inch voice coil, I doubt power handling will be as great an issue either mechanically or electrically.  Another option you have would be to run the TL606 in step down mode or retune the cabinet lower.  This would roll off bass response fiercely, but would help mechanically.  Remember the TL606 was designed for the EVM15L, not the 15B.  The 15B has a slightly lower fs than the 15L, so a slightly lower tuning frequency would probably do the 15B some good without so much negative impact on bass.  The gauss resonant freq. (31hz) is somewhat lower than the EVM 15B (I think), this might help a bit.  Obviously there are more factors than fs in play, but usually (back in the day) when people were blowing up EV and JBL consistently, they replaced the drivers with Gauss.  In my opinion, the electrovoice driver is a very nice sounding efficient machine, but the gauss has the advantage as far as power handling and durability, while keeping the efficiency.  If you're reproducing bass, I think the gauss edges out the EV.  
Over the years, I've had a whack of EVM 12L's and EVM 15L's both OEM and non-OEM.  The "heatsink" is not really a factor in power handling, and I found it just took up volume in the cabinet.  I usually removed the heatsink, and the little round plate that the heatsink held because the plate was a cause of buzzing when it got loose.  In the case of the power handling, most of mine were 100 watts unless they've been reconed.  Reconed, I was told they are 200watt.  I assume this is due to the solution Electrovoice came up with regarding voice coil lead attachment mentioned earlier.
Cheers
Mike
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Antone Atmarama Bajor

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Re: EVM15B's in a EVTL606 Cab
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2005, 04:16:07 am »

Thanks, I just took the drivers in for Re-cone (The spec sheet for the 15B claims the TL606 is the optimized cab for the driver).

    Apparently the drivers had been re coned with an extra light cone for "Hi fi" Home theater system or something weird like that.    I thought someone just had them re-coned as 15L's (Guitar 15) I'm getting the standard ridged 15B cone with the ribs installed (Even though the guys at A Brown really wanted me to put in their super pliable hemp cones).  I don't want that extra buckling cone distortion.  

    Mine don't have the magical cooling fins on them like the really old models.  I do have a nifty pair of D130's That I traded for some D140's that I use for guitar.  But uhh I don't think those drivers have any well documented specs for optimizing cabinets.  But My old Pine and Particle board Dual Showman Cab seems to sound fine.  MMM gota love that Piney fresh sound.  That's the vintage way.

Sum

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