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Author Topic: Bassmaxx's sound awful! Had to return 14 cabinets/ can't get money back!  (Read 19889 times)

Antone Atmarama Bajor

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Re: Excuse me? Would you like to check the facts?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2005, 09:40:38 pm »

David is there some kind of Capacitively coupled fuse set up that blows if High Frequency Harmonics are present from excessive clipping?  I was Just wondering how that worked?

Sum
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jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney)

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2 words for ya


OPERATOR ERROR!


I have used bassmax right next to the LAB, EAW DCS / BH, JBL, and Meyers 650 boxes.. those bassmax are a tough cabinet to beat.. and for all of you that want lab sound but cant get em build - bassmaxx is a damn fine out of the box solution..

gotta love those ghetto dj audio techs...
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Craig Leerman

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Quote:

gotta love those ghetto dj audio techs...


I have yet to meet a "DJ" who knows about pro audio, and I have been in this business for over 20 years!  While there is certainly some skill in keeping a dance floor filled, reading the crowd groove, knowing every cool dance tune, beat mixing, etc.... You would think that DJs would hire knowledgable soundpeople when they move up from their small systems.  

Last week I was at a bar shooting darts when the Karaoke DJ fired up his system.  My guitar distortion pedal would have a hard time keeping up with the distorted sound his rig was putting out (medium  quality gear that certainly should not sound that bad).  A quick glance at his DJ mixer confirmed that he was running MAX into the red.  Being the nice guy that I am (insert own jokes here  Laughing )  I suggested to him that he should back off his level, and that running into the red was causing distortion.  He CORRECTED me and informed me that you don't get "All the signal"  if you don't run the meters into the red!



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I'm so old, when I was doing FOH for Tommy Dorsey, to balance out the horn section I would slide their chairs downstage and upstage to mix!


Craig Leerman

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Next time you want to rag on somebody here, I suggest you sign your real name to the post.  If David Lee had not responded to this before I read it, I would have deleted your post because I'm not a big fan of people spouting accusations without signing their name (First AND Last) to the post.

Craig Leerman
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I'm so old, when I was doing FOH for Tommy Dorsey, to balance out the horn section I would slide their chairs downstage and upstage to mix!


David Lee

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Re: Why the fuses?
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2005, 01:29:19 pm »

sumsound wrote on Tue, 12 April 2005 20:40

David is there some kind of Capacitively coupled fuse set up that blows if High Frequency Harmonics are present from excessive clipping?  I was Just wondering how that worked?

Sum



Hi Sum,

The fuse is just an inline fuse.  It is a 6 amp 3AG fuse, which is supposed to blow at 10A for 1 second.  (See fuse time curve here http://www.littelfuse.com/data/en/Time_Curve/312-318.tc.pdf ) It is a very rudimentary set-up and it doesn't guarantee the driver's survival, but in my experience it helps protect against accidental overloads quite well.  In other words, when I have accidentally clipped the heck out of an amp and realized that the woofers were silent, I have been very glad to find that the fuses were out and the woofers survived.  With regard to my assertion that clipping amps blew the fuses, that was based on the above experience and the following observations:  I have used that exact amp/cabinet set up, (as have other customers,) and have never blown a fuse unless clipping was present.  (And certainly not six at a time.) Also, through my conversations with these customers it was clear that they didn't know how to set up limiters or compressors, these amps were new to them, and when I visited them, on the system I saw, (which was not the same one,) it was not set up with limiting in place to prevent clipping.  The person who actually bought the cabinets being referred to in the post, not the poster himself, told me he had not blown any woofers in many years of being in business.  The truth of the matter is that he still hasn't.  All the woofers I received back from him still worked.  The fuses did their job.

Why the fuses in the first place?  Most people will turn down the gain when they hear enough distortion to know that something's not right.  The fuses were added because the distortion levels from our subwoofers are so much lower than what people are used to that they hardly ever reach the point where the operator thinks it sounds bad enough to turn them down.  With our subs that is usually the point where the amp is clipping badly enough for it to be clearly audible, which is bad news for the woofers.  The fuses hopefully save new users the cost of repairing drivers as they learn where the limits are, and also from the occasional slip-up.  

The downside is that as the voice coil heats up and the impedance rises, the fuse becomes less effective.  We are also looking for the best way to prevent long-term thermal failures.   We've tried using the standard circuit breakers and light bulbs or resistors.  Everything involves compromises.  Some applications obviously need this type of protection where some users might reject it.  Your mention of a capacitively coupled fuse led me to the thought of a capacitor and a low resistance resistor in series, wired in paralell with the woofer.  If that's what you mean, we haven't done that, but that would tend to blow the fuse when higher frequencies were present.  For certain markets that would be a very good thing.  Looks like I've got some new testing to do.

Thanks.
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David Lee
BASSMAXX

Michael Young

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Craig-
Just wanted to say.....
If you make a trip to Columbus Ohio sometime..and meet me, I'm sure you'll be impressed with my audio knowledge as a DJ.
I know that i'm in the distinct Minority of DJs, but I got a little offended when you said that we as a whole don't know anything about good audio. I'm a proud owner of a rane DJ mixer, a rane RPM 26z, Crown amps (ce4000 & 2000) and EAW loudspeakers. I don't run my mixer with "all the little red lights on" and I don't clip my amps.
Cool
Just wanted you to know that there are DJs who do know how to run an audio system correctly, as hard as that may be to believe.
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Tom Manchester

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Quote:

He CORRECTED me and informed me that you don't get "All the signal" if you don't run the meters into the red!



And all this time I kept buying more amps and speakers, all I had to do was push my mixer a little high and I could be getting optimal performance Razz !
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-Tom
Electro Sound Systems

Michael_Elliston¶

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Djs with prosound knowledge  Shocked

When I start talking to people who are into music,gigs, or are djs,and talk about horn mouth sizes and subwoofer compromises,distortion and SPL ,their eyes glaze over within seconds and they go quiet,it just doesnt register.

But what people do understand :
'hearing is believing'

Give people a properly run sound system,and then all the crappy ,ill-used systems will be plain in comparison.
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Too Tall (Curtis H. List)

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Re: Why the fuses?
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2005, 01:28:21 pm »

David Lee wrote on Thu, 14 April 2005 13:29

sumsound wrote on Tue, 12 April 2005 20:40

David is there some kind of Capacitively coupled fuse set up that blows if High Frequency Harmonics are present from excessive clipping?  I was Just wondering how that worked?

Sum



Hi Sum,

snip-

 Your mention of a capacitively coupled fuse led me to the thought of a capacitor and a low resistance resistor in series, wired in paralell with the woofer.  If that's what you mean, we haven't done that, but that would tend to blow the fuse when higher frequencies were present.  For certain markets that would be a very good thing.  Looks like I've got some new testing to do.

Thanks.


Unless I am missing something a "a capacitor and a low resistance resistor in series, wired in parallel with the woofer" is also known as a "zobel". Something used to flatten rising impedance on a woofer so a passive xover can work properly. The resistor (usually in the 5 ohm to 15 ohm range) take quite a beating from the power amp as does the cap.

Since you would be filtering active impedance to crossover is not an issue, but the parts may take a beating none the less. Since the frequencies involved are above 200Hz I have no real idea how things change since that range will be totalled filtered out. I suppose I could set it up in LspCAD v6 and see how much power is dissipated.

I could try it on a LAB sub since I have the impedance data.
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Too Tall
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Excuse me? Would you like to check the facts?
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2005, 02:32:21 pm »

For the Nth time, with the possible exception of puny-ass hifi speakers, the drivers aren't blown up by the harmonics from clipping. In fact the clipping is caused by the gain being turned up "too far", which also raises the average power level, which overheats the VCs.


JR

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Tune it, or don't play it...
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