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Author Topic: yorkville tx9 vs. eaw sb850 vs. building myself  (Read 58793 times)

Johan Rademakers

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Re: yorkville tx9 vs. eaw sb850 vs. building myself
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2005, 08:26:05 am »

Or Europe for that matter.

Mvg Johan
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David Lee

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Re: yorkville tx9 vs. eaw sb850 vs. building myself
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2005, 02:55:02 pm »

Hello Johan,

The cgn 1808 was comissioned by us at BASSMAXX for inclusion into our subwoofer horns.  We have changed some of the materials that were originally spec's on the 1808 to better suit our horn-loading needs. We now call it a ZR18.  We feel the benefits of this driver can only be fully realized by horn loading it.  We also hold exclusive rights to the driver for horn-loaded applications.   We are currently negotiating a contract with an importer in Europe.  If all goes well the drivers will also be made availble through them.  Check with me about availability in a few weeks.  If you are interested in knowing all the details about the cgn woofer and/or the changes we've made, feel free to write to me and look for updates on http://www.bassmaxx.com which will be posted when the drivers become available.

Regards,
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David Lee
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Steve Shafer

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Bassmaxx changes to OEM drivers
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2005, 07:17:34 pm »

David:

What changes are you having made to the Eighteen Sound 18LW1400 driver that you use in your "budget" level subs?  These drivers are allready pretty solid and represent a real value product.  I would think that you would have lowered the FS and raised the xmax a bit??

Steve S
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Juan Pablo Cuervo

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Re: yorkville tx9 vs. eaw sb850 vs. building myself
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2006, 07:56:56 pm »

looking for weight reduction = easy to carry & lift / stairs , etc.---> look for neodimium magnets
like:
B&C 18NW100,
BMSpro.info 18N850
aurasound NRT18-8
& others

looking for deep subs 32-40-50Hz-64Hz, ? feel it
2x JBL 2241H in a 18cu.ft or 509liters box, tunned to 33Hz.
or 1x 2241H in a 9cu.ft box
the JBL sounds great & feels great original its the SR4719A/2/x
but remember fletcher & munson equal loudness curves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E2%80%93Munson_curves

http://www.rane.com/par-f.html
look fletcher munsn history


looking similar deep performance in a smaller box?, look for RCF L18P300. box like meyer 650 clone, i  think its better than  Yorville TX9s,

looking for +3dB loud bass? hear it loud, 100Hz-200Hz, but not loose much of the deep ?
look for RCF L18S800 or Beyma 18-G50, in a vended box, 6cu.ft 38Hz each driver,
Beyma 18g50 its more recomended becouse it has the biggest SD of  any 18" has more than a SD of 13!!!! and  9mm Xmax!!!!, and great BL!!!!

want an even Louder bass, but not sub bass, ???
cerwinvega  B36  clone, or T36 clone, with Beyma 18G50,
or many similar folded horns, that are like

http://www.cerwinvega.com/products/professional/vegabass/ima ges/foldedhorn.gif

S shaped or longer complex W-Bins like EV TL4025 TL4050, or EAW 882 bertha subs need a stronger cone and lots of BL and Xmax,  McCauley 6174, Aura NRT18-8, BMSpro.info 18N850 has 31BL and 13mm Xmax but unknown cone strengh at least equal to all paper cones out there,
the ciare 12.00sw 15.00sw & 18.00sw, have a poor SPL response  in the 100-200Hz but have the strongest cone, and great BL,

cerwinvega has the T-36 but does not sound earthquake to me,
but has an interesting BL52! and 1/2inch Xmax,

or download the Electrovoice TL4025 1x15" vintage plans at he bottom links, and multiply it  by 1.2 x 15" = 18"

or
http://members.aol.com/xxbase80a/
its a great site, he has made all those vintage box plans, and MEASURE THEM! the Freq Responce!!,
has the JBL W-Bin 1x18, but the html code its grong, but the files can be accesed by this link:
http://members.aol.com/xxbase80a/w18.bin/

the TL40XX response  curves are a bit  dissapointing, I guess becouse the drivers that were used! a new stronger BL , bigger Xmax, would / should give better results!
thats why i want to make them, just for fun
or at least recreate them in the hornresp software thats so great!
http://www.users.bigpond.com/dmcbean/

but read first the GREAT Help tutorial at:
http://www.diyaudio.com/wiki/index.php?page=Loudspeaker

I think/heard the JBL keele W-Bin 1x18" its better
has the loude bass and becouse it has a vented box it has also verry nice deep bass, but intead of the JBL 2240h, a Rcf l18s800 or a beyma 18g50 would be extreme better!
the site says that the 2x15 W-bin has more than JBL W-Bin of deep bass, but... becouse it has 2 drivers that sums way bigger SD, also its wider and does not fit in small doorways ,
i like more the 1x18 ,


even smaller box with out loosing subs? ISOBARIC its the name,
isobaric means twice  watts, half box, in speacial driver compound,
isobaric  its great, if you like small, and deep,
you can make Isobaric compound = 2x 18" drivers facing in a push+pull separated by a 1" or 1.25" wood ring = same signal , same watts but 1 with reverse polarity = 1 isobaric = 1 normal but isobaric has half 1/2 the box size, and quake feeling increase, becouse the twice hard cone mass & twice watts, no other desing beats the deep sub bass in such small box, too bad JBL 2241H has a bit dificult to make in isobaric becouse the aluminium in the speaker its lower than the foam = too bad becouse the JBL 2241H ask big box for deep bass,
it could be done by cutting or melting the foam at the level of the aluminium and usign 1.25" ring or 2 glued 3/4" rings at the edge,  should be so GREAT to make them, a  2x Isobaric of 18" JBL 2241H, its a real portable QUAKE , 2 isobarics of JBL 2241h in one box, but just one isobaric gives great deep in a incredible 1/2 enclosure! but Xmax mmmmmm,
or Aura Sound NRT18-8 has similar box requeriments and freq. response than a JBL 2241h in any software but with way bigger Xmax of 18mm and great BL!

Just BEWare That front facing Isobaric needs more than 6mm of Xmax, driver reach the Xmax too easy,
the EV EVX180B dont have enough Xmax
The McCauley 6174 also asks for big vented box to deliver deep bass in the sotware, it looks in the software that could be great for front isobaric too!
also BMSpro.info 18N850 looks GREAT, but has a bit poor freq. response, but has 1200W, or others could be great, even the Ciare 18.00SW but has even poor SPL,
or Beyma 18G50 that has such great SD!,  1 isobaric in a 3.cu.ft box tunned to 33Hz? or 35Hz? or 38Hz?  imagine that!

the  eminence software, gives a compound isobarich  in puch pull, both drivers separated by the same box, BUT, only if the box has 1" or better 1.25" MDF ,  and a real door,
its easy to make a 1" 1.25" ring to separate them,  and use really LONG Screws! with butterflys
Isobaric its great for cars with small space,

look download eminence.com designer software for more info,
   http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/products02/ cabinet/maincab.htm

make any box in MDF with lots of wood glue & long wood screws, 3/4" if you want light, 1" if you want strong box, minium for isobaric, or 1.25" MDF = the best but really heavy,
be shure to make wheels like community vlf-218 or meyer 650 makes life really easy to carry arround, JBL original SR4719x are almost imposible to carry, but  sound great
then buy some plastic black finish to paint the boxes, make several layers, allow them to dry enough,
and  for vented boxes, 1 big vent port in the center of the box for 2x18", i think and hear sounds better than several smaller ports, BUT manufacturers lke makie say that more distributed ventss are better for cone  distortion at high drive levels, your choise, make 1 big 33Hz vent for 2x18" in a  18cu.ft or 8 smaller vents arround the 2x18", or make 4 for 1x18" driver,
unless its the W-Bin 1x18", your choise

to make your own boxes you must have access to a table circular fixed rotating saw with mettering, AND a fixed wood leveler table also with mettering and angles, thats a drum roll with 3 knives rotating in a table, AND a powerfull more than 400W Electric Driller with reverse and some screw heads, to screw the screws,

wood sides  must fit perfectly before glue and screws,

want a concert SPL sound?  emacoustics.co.uk ms-118  in groups of 8, minium 4x,
EAW DSC2 , bh822, la400, bassmaxx
all horn loaded bass must be in groups of 8, horns need to be big to fit the bass wave lenght, or wont go low,
or make your own, keele JBL 1x18" W-Bin in groups of 8, 2x4,
or buy them made from sonic or used from stageaccompany.com vintage used to make that keele JBL 1x18" W-Bin,
use the W-Bins with Beyma 18G50, or RCF L18S800, or RCF P300, or others that make almost JBL 2241h deep bass in a 5.cu.ft 35Hz box,

or make the precision-devices.com 2x24" PD.2450, WOW!!!
that could sound & feel so Amazing! with a RMX2450 for each box 2x24"
 
or
http://www.egbeck.de/speaker.htm
the california looks interesting

http://www.geocities.com/loudspeakerguru/links_page.html
look in small letters for EV TL4025 TL4050 scanns 4 pages

http://mitglied.lycos.de/crusher844/plaene.html
look for eaw la400 interesting

http://www.speakerplans.com/
look the FAQ

http://melhuish.org/audio/horn.htm
if want to know more about horns

http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/wbin/
download the target images, GREAT! W-Bin in 3d!!!
and the original paper:
zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/wbin/w.doc

or the original cerwinvega B36, with a P300 = crap sound

  http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/pbaudio/earthquakeB36/Earthquake% 20B36%20Baskast.doc

but with beyma 15g50 and longer mouth, exending the open, would sound way better! or the McCauley 6174 could make an interesting boost arround 60Hz!

ive seen  punisher similar to earthquake with ciare 12.00sw and 15.00sw and 18.00sw,
speakerstore.nl
has great plans

or many other stuff including eminence and fane books:
http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/
also look the first link , uploaded by vanhell

look for the eminece vintage loudspeaker  book , or the fane vintage loudspeaker  book

or the beyma designs  on .pdf

i made my self , a community VLF-218, but bigger! to have enough Cu.Ft for JBL 2241H,
originally i used 2 isobaric peavey 18" blackwidows = 4 in one   box, sounded great BUT BlackWidows need bigger box= good for isobaric BUT have  small Xmax = not good for Subs!, are OK for bass, but not subs

Now they are loaded with JBL 2241H , 2 each box, has a bit less deep bass than original SR4719x, but... has a bit more in 125Hz & 160Hz, way better than Electrovoice MTL-1x,
they sound really great! &  really nice to me,
depends on your taste,
hear more bass or hear less but feel more bass

i like more to feel the bass, than hear  it,

you could build a 2x18" vented and put a 4" 2" driver horn on top of it, like jbl 2446j + 2380a, or similar, driver and that sounds Great! and use bi-amplified with a  JBL M553 at 500Hz, 24dB/oct, Sounds GREAT! & BIG!

or if you put lots of super tweeters like JBL 2405h or 2402h, or similar at 9kHz
SOUNDS AMAZING!!!
i  have it like that, it just sounds BIG & CLEAR & AMAZING!

vented subs can be used for bi-amplified, sub horns  must be 3-way,

i think & hear the pyle pro ppm501 "an eminence vintage design  1x15 mid box" sounds better than JBL 4560 mid box or peavey HD115 vintage  midbass,
http://www.pyleaudio.com/EL/PPM501.jpg
but with a peavey 1508-8he or 15058 ka dt, or 1501-4 or JBL E130-8, or similar high efficiency 15" driver, would sound GREAT LOUD!! & BIG!@
thers another MB115 vintage midbass  design similar to emincence but havent heard it, or dont know the measures to know if its better than eminence design, if its bigger deeper, its better, simple for horns
or the Peavey MB-1 or the MB-2, or the  FH-2 subs,

http://www.assistanceaudio.com

http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/wbin/
download  the target images, GREAT! W-Bin in 3d!!!
and the original paper:
zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/wbin/w.doc

or the original cerwinvega B36, with a P300 = crap sound

http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/pbaudio/earthquakeB36/Earthquake% 20B36%20Baskast.doc

http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/products02/ cabinet/maincab.htm

http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/products02/

make any box in MDF with lots of wood glue & long wood screws, 3/4" if you want light, 1" if you want strong box, minium for isobaric, or 1.25" MDF = the best but really heavy,
be shure to make wheels like community vlf-218 or meyer 650 makes life really easy to carry arround, JBL original SR4719x are almost imposible to carry, but  sound great
then buy some plastic black finish to paint the boxes, make several layers, allow them to dry enough,
and  for vented boxes, 1 big vent port in the center of the box for 2x18", i think and hear sounds better than several smaller ports, BUT manufacturers lke makie say that more distributed ventss are better for cone  distortion at high drive levels, your choise, make 1 big 33Hz vent for 2x18" in a  18cu.ft or 8 smaller vents arround the 2x18", or make 4 for 1x18" driver,
unless its the W-Bin 1x18", your choise

to make your own boxes you must have access to a table circular fixed rotating saw with mettering, AND a fixed wood leveler table also with mettering and angles, thats a drum roll with 3 knives rotating in a table, AND a powerfull more than 400W Electric Driller with reverse and some screw heads, to screw the screws,

wood sides  must fit perfectly before glue and screws,

want a concert SPL sound?  emacoustics.co.uk ms-118  in groups of 8, minium 4x,
EAW DSC2 , bh822, la400, bassmaxx
all horn loaded bass must be in groups of 8, horns need to be big to fit the bass wave lenght, or wont go low,
or make your own, keele JBL 1x18" W-Bin in groups of 8, 2x4,
or buy them made from sonic or used from stageaccompany.com vintage used to make that keele JBL 1x18" W-Bin,
use the W-Bins with Beyma 18G50, or RCF L18S800, or RCF P300, or others that make almost JBL 2241h deep bass in a 5.cu.ft 35Hz box,

or make the precision-devices.com 2x24" PD.2450, WOW!!!
that could sound & feel so Amazing! with a RMX2450 for each box 2x24"
 
or
http://www.egbeck.de/speaker.htm
the california looks interesting

http://www.geocities.com/loudspeakerguru/links_page.html
look in small letters for EV TL4025 TL4050 scanns 4 pages

http://mitglied.lycos.de/crusher844/plaene.html
look for eaw la400 interesting

http://www.speakerplans.com/
look the FAQ

http://melhuish.org/audio/horn.htm
if want to know more about horns

http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/wbin/
download  the target images, GREAT! W-Bin in 3d!!!
and the original paper:
zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/wbin/w.doc

or the original cerwinvega B36, with a P300 = crap sound
http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/pbaudio/earthquakeB36/Earthquake2 0B36%20Baskast.doc

but with beyma 15g50 and longer mouth, exending the open, would sound way better!
mccauley 6174
has an interesting  bass booos arround 60Hz in 3cu.ft enclosures
has great 15mm Xmax, cone strengh, but BL could not handle small closed box and a front loaded short folded horn, but should be great to try it against the Bayma 15G50

ive seen punisher similar to earthquake with ciare 12.00sw and 15.00sw and 18.00sw,
speakerstore.nl
has great plans

or many other stuff including eminence and fane books:
http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/
also look the first link , uploaded by vanhell

look for the eminece vintage loudspeaker  book , or the fane vintage loudspeaker  book

or the beyma designs  on .pdf

i made my self , a community VLF-218, but bigger! to have enough Cu.Ft for JBL 2241H,
originally i used 2 isobaric peavey 18" blackwidows = 4 in one   box, sounded great BUT BlackWidows need bigger box= good for isobaric BUT have  small Xmax = not good for Subs!, are OK for bass, but not subs

Now they are loaded with JBL 2241H , 2 each box, has a bit less deep bass than original SR4719x, but... has a bit more in 125Hz & 160Hz, way better than Electrovoice MTL-1x,
they sound really great! &  really nice to me,
depends on your taste,
hear more bass or hear less but feel more bass

i like more to feel the bass, than hear  it,

you could build a 2x18" vented and put a 4" 2" driver horn on top of it, like jbl 2446j + 2380a, or similar, driver and that sounds Great! and use bi-amplified with a  JBL M553 at 500Hz, 24dB/oct, Sounds GREAT! & BIG!

or if you put lots of super tweeters like JBL 2405h or 2402h, or similar at 9kHz
SOUNDS AMAZING!!!
i  have it like that, it just sounds BIG & CLEAR & AMAZING!

vented subs can be used for bi-amplified, sub horns  must be 3-way,

i thing & hear the pyle pro ppm501 "an eminence vintage design  1x15 mid box" sounds better than JBL 4560 mid box or peavey HD115 vintage  midbass,

http://www.pyleaudio.com/EL/PPM501.jpg
but with a peavey 1508-8he or 15058 ka dt, or 1501-4 or JBL E130-8, or similar high efficiency 15" driver, would sound GREAT LOUD!! & BIG!@
thers another MB115 vintage midbass  design similar to emincence but havent heard it, or dont know the measures to know if its better than eminence design, if its bigger deeper, its better, simple for horns
or the Peavey MB-1 or the MB-2, or the  FH-2 subs,

http://www.assistanceaudio.com

zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/wbin/
download  the target images, GREAT! W-Bin in 3d!!!
and the original paper:
zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/wbin/w.doc

or the original cerwinvega B36, with a P300 = crap sound
http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/pbaudio/earthquakeB36/Earthquake% 20B36%20Baskast.doc

but with beyma 15g50 and longer mouth, exending the open, would sound way better!
or the mccauley 6174 could make it sound a bit  more in 60Hz, if the  BL can  handle the pressure!

ive seen  punisher similar to earthquake with ciare 12.00sw and 15.00sw and 18.00sw,
speakerstore.nl
has great plans

or many other stuff including eminence and fane books:
http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/
also look the first link , uploaded by vanhell

look for the eminece vintage loudspeaker  book , or the fane vintage loudspeaker  book

or the beyma designs  on .pdf

i made my self , a community VLF-218, but bigger! to have enough Cu.Ft for JBL 2241H,
originally i used 2 isobaric peavey 18" blackwidows = 4 in one   box, sounded great BUT BlackWidows need bigger box= good for isobaric BUT have  small Xmax = not good for Subs!, are OK for bass, but not subs

Now they are loaded with JBL 2241H , 2 each box, has a bit less deep bass than original SR4719x, but... has a bit more in 125Hz & 160Hz, way better than Electrovoice MTL-1x,
they sound really great! &  really nice to me,
depends on your taste,
hear more bass or hear less but feel more bass

i like more to feel the bass, than hear  it,

you could build a 2x18" vented and put a 4" 2" driver horn on top of it, like jbl 2446j + 2380a, or similar, driver and that sounds Great! and use bi-amplified with a  JBL M553 at 500Hz, 24dB/oct, Sounds GREAT! & BIG!

or if you put lots of super tweeters like JBL 2405h or 2402h, or similar at 9kHz
SOUNDS AMAZING!!!
i  have it like that, it just sounds BIG & CLEAR & AMAZING!

vented subs can be used for bi-amplified, sub horns  must be 3-way,

i thing & hear the pyle pro ppm501 "an eminence vintage design  1x15 mid box" sounds better than JBL 4560 mid box or peavey HD115 vintage  midbass,
http://www.pyleaudio.com/EL/PPM501.jpg
but with a peavey 1508-8he or 15058 ka dt, or 1501-4 or JBL E130-8, or similar high efficiency 15" driver, would sound GREAT LOUD!! & BIG!@
thers another MB115 vintage midbass  design similar to emincence but havent heard it, or dont know the measures to know if its better than eminence design, if its bigger deeper, its better, simple for horns
or the Peavey MB-1 or the MB-2, or the  FH-2 subs,


http://www.assistanceaudio.com
could import the 18N850 BMSpro.info cheap!

Good luck!
index.php/fa/4237/0/url]
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Gareth James

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Re: yorkville tx9 vs. eaw sb850 vs. building myself
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2006, 08:46:10 pm »

Wowsers juan... are you trying to answer every question about subwoofers ever in one very long post!

You did get me thinking though... of many a manufacturer of "supposed" (or even in most professionals eyes PROVEN) top end subwoofer drivers, of various sizes, how can we rate the "strength" of a cone....especially given newer designs which quite often rely on the strength of the cone to allow for more extreme loading techniques...
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Chris Coleman 2

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Re: yorkville tx9 vs. eaw sb850 vs. building myself
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2006, 10:01:37 am »

I notice something really interesting on the Bassmax.com Technology page and I'd love to get your comments because this might influence what kind of sub I end up building :

"How does BASSMAXX Technology make such deep bass? ....... The Box-Free design avoids the tendencies of rapid low frequency roll-off and driver unloading that occurs below resonance in all vented boxes. It also avoids the low frequency roll-off and terrible dynamic smother associated with all sealed boxes. (This includes horn cabinets that include a sealed or vented driver sub-enclosure.) .......... "

So... you start to think... LAB sub uses sealed sub-enclosures, right ??  How does bassmax produce a horn loaded sub without putting the driver into a sealed or vented sub-enclosure ?? Is there an another possibly way besides sealed and vented sub-enclosures ??
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Antone Atmarama Bajor

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Re: yorkville tx9 vs. eaw sb850 vs. building myself
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2006, 02:37:59 pm »

     I don't think dynamic smother is a very technical term.

    I did read a little about sealed chamber driver horn subs vs. open air driver horn subs (I forget the article but someone here posted a link to it a little while ago).

     The author made the assertion that some people find open air more "musical" sounding and find sealed subs more "distant" sounding.

    The main problem that was stated about open air subs is that the driver is unevenly loaded for its negative wave so you get amplitude distortion.  I believe its similar to using a fet (and maybe tube) as a gain stage in its less linear transfer curve region.

    A sealed chamber trys to compensate for lack of loading for the negative portion of the wave.

    An ideal exponential/hyperbolic horn would have an identical flair on either side of the driver (if the driver had identical resistance characteristics in either direction to begin with, push pull config may help this).  The main problem with this is you would have a giant Bidirectional horn.  I don't know about its effect on rapid rolloff after flare cutoff.  I don't see how free air subs are any better about not having rapid roll off.

Antone-
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sheldon harris

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Re: yorkville tx9 vs. eaw sb850 vs. building myself
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2006, 08:01:31 pm »

i think someone did a paper on open ended horns. cant quite put my finger on it.
they do sound "diffrent" but picture it this way, have you ever removed the cover from a cerwin vega earthquake and listen to it?
the loading on the driver that was removed with the cover changed the sound but they still maintained the low frequency!
the bassmaxx reproduces some very low frequency content,and when i actually look at the driver,the cone doesnt seem to be doing anything out of the ordinary as compared to a sealed or vented front loaded box.
my guess is, the horn itself is enough to keep the driver loaded,
along with the fact that the driver is turned back out, which makes for a physically stronger moving mass. ( the horn loads driver on one side,the positive preasure, while on the negative the coil moves back into the magnetic field, and because it is harder to compress a cone from the top, this also helps to load the driver.( elctrovoice is famous for back loading drivers, they are much stronger when the cone/coil is aloud to move back into the field on the outward stroke)
i wonder if anyone would be willing to slap a cover on the back side of a bassmaxx and do an a/b?
 
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