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Author Topic: yorkville tx9 vs. eaw sb850 vs. building myself  (Read 59029 times)

israel ramirez

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yorkville tx9 vs. eaw sb850 vs. building myself
« on: February 24, 2005, 11:01:01 am »

I would like to know which is better in terms of output.

I have heard the tx's, but i want to know if the 850's are louder.

I have also considered building them myself with B&C TBX100 drivers according to the design at:

http://www.bcspeakers.com/index.php?sez=3&categoria=45&a mp;prodotto=142

A drawback of the tx'x is that they are heavier (not sure) than the eaw's, and I often work at venues on second floors.
So I guess that weight is also an issue.

Any input on this will be appreciated. Thanks
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Re: yorkville tx9 vs. eaw sb850 vs. building myself
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2005, 02:20:48 pm »

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I've said and written things in the past that I wouldn't throw away in my own trash can for fear that you'd find them. My name is mud.

Michael_Elliston¶

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Well,
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2005, 03:03:15 pm »

BHFProfessional wrote on Thu, 24 February 2005 19:20

You should have put this on the LAB. The title of this forum is somewhat misleading. It deals with one particular subwoofer, the LAB Horn subwoofer designed by Tom Danley, formerly of SPL/Servodrive.


Home of the LAB Subwoofer Project, with on-line design work, access to plans and data, and plenty of "sub talk".
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Mike MacWillie

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Re: yorkville tx9 vs. eaw sb850 vs. building myself
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2005, 06:17:43 pm »

BHFProfessional wrote on Thu, 24 February 2005 11:20

You should have put this on the LAB. The title of this forum is somewhat misleading. It deals with one particular subwoofer, the LAB Horn subwoofer designed by Tom Danley, formerly of SPL/Servodrive.



Then why is the crusher posted here?   Twisted Evil
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Steve Shafer

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BHF??? & Some info on the subs and drivers
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2005, 11:20:08 am »

Idontkno:

First off Mr BHFProfessional surely gets his share of free promotion from the LAB for his own "designs"(see his post below), but he calls you on the carpet for your post?

The determination of what is or is not appropriate for this forum is up to Craig.  So I would not wory about your TX-9 vs SB850 post for right now. Follow to the end of this quote for some comments about the two subs in question.

"BHFProfessional
Messages: 203
Registered: August 2004
Location: West Lafayette, IN Has No Life  


Stack two per side and get out of the way!

From the designer of the BH10 "Crusher" bass horn, which gave new meaning to "Portable Performance", comes the newest addition to the BHFProfessional family of professional high-performance horn speakers - the BHFProfessional V-2. The V-2 is a highly-specialized horn-loaded LF enclosure. It does not reach deeply into subwoofer frequencies, but it provides outstanding reinforcement to low frequency sound, with long-throw peformance that's tough to match. The V-2 is well at home in outdoor performances, where long throw and high output are priorities, while ultra-deep LF performance may not be. The enclosure itself is relatively compact: 20" wide x 28" deep x 36" high. Yet it horn-loades twin 15" woofers, which allows it to serve up concert-level LF with power and punch.

Real Performance:
Marketing-speak only gets you so far in the world of pro audio, where tangible benefits MUST be proven in order to prove a product's worth. Early simulations of the V-2's enclosure, which is like a W-bin on steroids (but with some notable improvements), show surprisingly good results. One enclosure has a +/-3dB response of 55-330 Hz, with a slight +3dB rise near 200 Hz, in the range commonly referred to as the "punch" frequencies, thus filling the greatest design goal of the V-2. Through the passband, the single enclosure has an average sensitivity of 108dB 1w/1m. The V-2 horn-loads two widely-available Peavey Black Widow BWX1508-8 woofers. These woofers have an added benefit: Field-replaceable basket/cone assemblies. When a woofer fails, it's usually the voice coil or suspension components. The precisely-machined metal components of the motor assembly can be removed from the back of the BWX-series woofers, and a new basket and cone assembly can be installed. This is less expensive than replacing entire woofers if a part of them should fail. For applications where extension to 55 hz is not sufficient (such as rap, hip-hop, R&B, and some flavors of pop), you can pair the V-2 with a folded horn subwoofer like the upcoming BH15 "Carnivore" folded horn subwoofer, featuring Peavey Low Rider subwoofer drivers with the same replaceable basket/cone features, but extended LF performance.

Timetable:
Expect more detailed simulation data and enclosure construction plans to be made available in February or March of 2005, unless interest is extremely high. Otherwise I'll just focus on getting some BH10 "Crusher" plans drawn using CAD.
[Updated on: Fri, 10 December 2004 19:09]



    ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------
Rory Buszka

BHFSpeakers
BHFProfessional"

The original TX-8 used the RCF L18p300. I believe the TX-9 did as well. Yorkville then switched to the B&C driver.  There are some on the LAB (see archives) who believe the older version to be a better sub.

The original SB850 (not z) also had the RCF L18p300 drivers as well. I have heard that the Z version uses a variation of the AEB/18 Sound L18w1400.  It is a very impressive driver at a very reasonable price.  Universal music is the 18 Sound US distibutor

Both of these subs are pretty well respected subwoofers.  From a DIY point of veiw, the TX-8s might be easier to build, but you want to reverse engineer the TX-9 which is not inproduction anymore.  

I would not go by the quoted SPL specs for either box unless it is clarified if the spec is calculated or measured and under what circumstances.


Charlie Tappa @ pro sound service in Brain Tree MA is an expert on B&C and RCF drivers, perhaps he could give you a few pointers on your project. He would be able to clarify which driver from B&C would be the best replacement for the RCF L18p300.  BTW Charlie will be one of RCF's new dealers and driver repair centers.  

Welcome to the LAB. It seems to me that your question is "Sub Talk" and you are not promoting your own products or designs nor are you making your subs for commerical purposes.

Steve S
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Dave Rickard

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Re: yorkville tx9 vs. eaw sb850 vs. building myself
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2005, 04:01:30 pm »

BHFProfessional wrote on Fri, 25 February 2005 17:10

The Crusher is a 10" design. I have considered a Super Crusher with a 12" driver, but it would take a longer time to develop. I still haven't had a chance yet to do the 3D modeling for the prototype Crusher, even though I have the thing on paper. I still want to see if I can make the Crusher only 15" or 14.5" wide for truck packing if I possibly can. I have not that much on the project in the past month or so, because the time just hasn't been there. I hope to get the 3D modeling done in the week before Spring Break so I can build the prototype.



Craig Leerman, Forum Moderator wrote:

OK, I'm getting a little tired of all the "new" subwoofer design posts where the poster brags about how great their design will be, but unfortunately they have not made one!

So here is the deal. I don't want to see a post introducing any new designs as a completed project unless you have actually measured A REAL ONE!

This does not mean that you can't discuss a new design, or its merrits.

Of course, general subwoofer theory and design questions can still be posted.

EXAMPLE of what not to do in a post:

"Here is my new Discombobulator (tm) sub that will blow anything away using an 8" Radio Shack speaker. I havn't built one yet, but my computer calculation show that in a stack of 4 they make a Lab Sub cry!"

EXAMPLE of an acceptable post:

"I've been working on a small portable sub based around a Rat Shack 8" speaker. Here is what the computer program shows it will do. What do you guys think?"

If you want to brag and basically ADVERTISE your design, then GET YOUR OWN WEB PAGE and provide a link to it in a post. If you want to discuss the merrits of a design, feel free to do so here. But knock off the "My sub blows the doors off yours crap" especially since no real measurments have been made!

While you guys can't see it, I have had to delete a few posts that took this "one-upmanship" to the stupid level.


Here are the basic rules of this forum.

* You can discuss any aspect of the LAB subs, from construction, to operation, to redesigning them. This forum is first and foremost about the LAB SUB project.

* You can discuss all subwoofer theory and design concepts. Reverse engineering a manufacturers box so you can build one is out, but concepts and application for any manufactures box are on topic.

* General woodworking and shop questions. Where to buy wood, parts, etc. Even construction hints and tricks. Basically, anything to do with the construction of the LAB in specific, or in cabinet building in general is allowed here.

* Compatible High Packs for the LAB, including design projects for a top box.

* Comparisons, or shootout results between subs, especially if they involve the LAB

* Any other SUBWOOFER Box designs and ideas including amplification issues for subwoofers and cabling.

* Pictures of LAB subs and other projects subs, or topboxes for the lab

Because this is a professional forum, we expect a few things from the participants.

* A REAL NAME. If you want to participate in an adult professional forum, a name is required. The only exception to this rule is if you are in the Witness Protection Program, and then you may use the alias given to you by the FBI! You may use a handle as your login, but you must put a real name in the body of your post.

* A LITTLE SEARCHING BEFORE POSTING. Many questions and topics have been beat to death. Do a search on the site or on Google before posting not only here, but on all of PSW forums.

* READ THE RULES. Read the different forum rules before jumping into the discussions. Many forums have different rules and operating principles. In general, The LAB, Lighting, LAB SUB, and Install forums have the same guidelines. The LAB LOUNGE allows the use of handles, and is a little looser. The MARSH and REC Pit forums have entirely different guidelines.

* A LITTLE LURKING BEFORE JOINING. Read the past posts and get a feel for the forum you want to participate in. That way you will get an idea of who some of the regulars are, and how the place works.


Craig Leerman
Forum Moderator
Prosoundweb.com
Craig @ prosoundweb.com
Soundmancraig @ yahoo.com

[Updated on: Thu, 27 January 2005 02:39]
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Dave
Yorkville dealer

"The wrong piece of gear, at the right price, is still the wrong piece of gear."

"If you don't have good stuff at each end of the signal chain, (mics and speakers) what you use in between is just turd polish."--Dave Dermont

Adam Kane

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Re: BHF??? & Some info on the subs and drivers
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2005, 03:20:32 pm »

We use four TX9S's and couldn't be happier.  Whether we stack 2 per side or four in the middle, they seem to perform flawlessly.  We do a variety of events ranging in everything from metal acts, rap/hip-hop, to celtic.  They seem to work great for everything.  We're running one QSC rmx2450 bridged per cabinet.

As far as building them, each driver has it's own cavity and porting is located towards the outsides of the baffle.  May be a little tricky but as long as you've got the tools and know-how, it shouldn't be impossible.

I don't have any personal experience with the EAW sub so I can't be of any help there.

adam
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Peter Morris

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Re: yorkville tx9 vs. eaw sb850 vs. building myself
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2005, 05:53:50 pm »

The answer is simple – basically both boxes use the same or similar drivers, they are both reflex boxes of similar volume and port design. Soooo ... they will perform similarly. Use one of the shareware speaker analysis programs and you can see what the effect of different volumes and tuning frequencies have in terms of output, Xmax and LF extension.  The trick is to pick the compromise that will best suit your needs best.

The only other thing I should add is that you will find that an RCF 18P300 has a certain sound to it, it has quite a bit of 2nd harmonic distortion that a lot of people love while the 18sound or RCF precision range have much less. Although they are probably capable of more output than the 18P300 they may not sound that way.

Peter
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Tim Padrick

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Re: yorkville tx9 vs. eaw sb850 vs. building myself
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2005, 10:55:08 pm »

If you want to build and (like me) don't have the patience to build LAD subs, build a box around this: http://www.bhivemotor.com/ .

Gareth James

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Re: yorkville tx9 vs. eaw sb850 vs. building myself
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2005, 08:01:14 am »

Does anyone know where this driver (CGN1808 - Beehive motor) can be bought in the uk and if so how much?
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