ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Unity horn or multi-horn  (Read 5630 times)

Finn

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
Unity horn or multi-horn
« on: February 10, 2005, 06:26:14 am »

just interested to see what people think about these two approaches to mid-high boxes.  do you think having the mid-range and compression drivers on one horn would provide a more natural, even distribution of sound, as opposed to most horn loaded mid-high speakers, which have each driver loading a seperate horn?
i can't find where i read it, but i think it was somewhere on this forum, someone put up a link to some of the theory on the unity horn, and i recall it mentioning that to have the mid-range drivers time-aligned with the compression driver they could be no more than 1/4 wavelength in distance (given a certain crossover frequency) from the compression driver.  after checking the funktion-one website, their 8" mid crosses over to the 1" compression driver at around 5.5kHz ... a lot higher than the yorkville unity's crossover point from the compression driver to the three 5" mids.  somewhere else on the funktion-one website i found an article about the company's design philosophy's, in which it explains why they prefer to use a mid-range driver up to a higher frequency, and then a 1" compression driver, rather than crossing over a 2" compression driver much lower, which according to them results in a harsher sound.  i tend to agree with that, since i've heard a few systems with 2" comp drivers, and the funktion-one resolution 4's sound so much cleaner.
enough rambling.... i'm sure u know where i'm coming from now?!?!
any thoughts?

Finn.
Logged

michiel

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 32
Re: Unity horn or multi-horn
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2005, 08:17:04 am »

With a unity horn you will get a point source which is a good thing.

If you stay within the ¼ wavelength the drivers will couple effectively so there will be no difference in distance between the source of the mids and highs to the horn mouth. If there is a difference in distance the two source won’t work like one source around the x over point. And that’s creates cancellation.
With a unity horn the placing of the drivers is a precision job. I think I don’t have the knowledge to design  a good working  unity horn. There might be some other bottlenecks...

Personally i also like the sound of 1” cp drivers. A 2” doesn’t as clear as a 1”. To make it possible to use a 1” driver, you must cross higher because a 1” simply won’t go as low as a 2” and can’t handle as much power as a 2” does. To raise the crossover point is a way to decrease to the amount of power on the hf driver.        
Logged

Weogo Reed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 832
Re: Unity horn or multi-horn
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2005, 11:33:58 pm »

Hi Finn,

I have Tom Danley's td-1 speakers.  They are the most accurate sounding speakers I have heard.  The time-alignment summation works.

The Yorkville Unity boxes likely sound similar, though with a bit lower overall level(three instead of four midrange drivers), and a bit less directional control, since the 15" driver(s) aren't horn loaded.

I wonder if the EAW AX-series is an attempt to get around the Unity patent?  It sure looks interesting.

Some other interesting boxes are the Coda boxes using the BMS coaxial 1"/2" for mids and highs.

Good health,  Weogo
Logged

ChainedDragon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 65
Re: Unity horn or multi-horn
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2005, 08:04:00 am »

I have the links your looking for bookmarked


on a diffrent machine, will post when I get home
Logged

[x]

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 642
Re: Unity horn or multi-horn
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2005, 10:56:54 pm »

I read the AX series white paper. It appears that EAW has taken a much more complicated route to achieve the end that Unity Summation Aperture technology achieves quite simply. Instead, it appears that the phase plug and driver system that EAW is introducing is a much more refined variation of the Renkus-Heinz CoEntrant driver/phase plug technology. The low frequency drivers are not loaded to the horn as they are in the SPL-TD1. Of course, if Tom Danley or Mark Seaton or anyone familiar with Unity Summation Aperture can fill us in on how much horn loading is actually contributed when the driver is placed that far from the beginning of the horn, it would help me in my explanation of why EAW's Concentric Summation Aperture technology is not an infringement of the Unity Summation Aperture patent.
Logged
I've said and written things in the past that I wouldn't throw away in my own trash can for fear that you'd find them. My name is mud.

John Halliburton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1785
Re: Unity horn or multi-horn
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2005, 02:46:10 pm »

Finn asked:
just interested to see what people think about these two approaches to mid-high boxes. do you think having the mid-range and compression drivers on one horn would provide a more natural, even distribution of sound, as opposed to most horn loaded mid-high speakers, which have each driver loading a seperate horn?

First, I use the SPL Trik Traps, kind of the big brother to the U15.  As Weogo stated, I believe the Unity Summation designs to be the most accurate reproducer of sound out there.  I would gladly put a system of TD1s/BDEAP subs against any line array-I've heard it done.  Less processing and cabinets needed because the design is closer to the theoretical ideal of what a full range point source does-a slice out of the sphere as it were.  Tom has spent a lot of time trying to optimize phase response in the design, something few others attempt(getting it truely stable and near zero)- a very underappreciated thing, and a bigger contributor to good sound reproduction than most most realize.  It does make a substantial difference, especially when putting together a large system.

As for patent issues, maybe it's better to look at it this way-Elvis(I think)said that impersonation is the highest form of flattery he could think of.

Best regards,

John Halliburton
Logged

Too Tall (Curtis H. List)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1591
Re: Unity horn or multi-horn
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2005, 03:15:34 pm »

BHFProfessional wrote on Sat, 12 February 2005 22:56



snip-

The low frequency drivers are not loaded to the horn as they are in the SPL-TD1. Of course, if Tom Danley or Mark Seaton or anyone familiar with Unity Summation Aperture can fill us in on how much horn loading is actually contributed when the driver is placed that far from the beginning of the horn,

Snip-

.


   Here is the way I understand it. The 12" drivers are "horn" loaded, but very little of the resistance comes from the horn. Most of the load comes from covering the driver face except for the small (in comparison) exit holes.

If you look at the frequency response of a 12" cone driver on a typical straight horn you will notice that where the horn stops working (because it is not long enough and does not have a big enough mouth) the frequency response drops. AND the phase response changes from close to flat to a steep dive.


   So in the frequency range where he want to cross from the 5" to the 12" he has to put enough of a "load" on the 12" driver to keep the phase from lagging. Since he can't fit in a long enough horn he covers the driver to give it something to push against. Same thing for the 5".
   Both use and need the part of the horn they see, but it is not enough by itself to keep enough of a load on the driver to keep the phase from lagging.

This is how I understand it.

Logged
Too Tall
        Curtis H. List    
             Bridgeport, Mich.   
        I.A.T.S.E. Local # 274 (Gold Card)
        Lansing, Mich
Independent Live Sound Engineer (and I'm Tall Too!)

John Halliburton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1785
Re: Unity horn or multi-horn
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2005, 05:23:09 pm »

A minor thing to include with Too Tall's post-the low frequency horn works better as you add units together.  Interestingly, when the King Biscuit Blues Fest first hired CSS, we all went down for the weekend.  At one point, Mike Grimm would mute the subs to show how the 12 per side TD1 hang performed full range, and it was impressive how well they did by themselves-not that I wouldn't run subs...;>)

Best regards,

John
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.073 seconds with 18 queries.