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Author Topic: The Tuba 36 debuts  (Read 31428 times)

Mr.Nightro

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Re: The Tuba 36 debuts
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2005, 09:19:36 PM »

BHFProfessional wrote "simply scaling up the dimensions for the Tuba 24 to handle the larger driver. I will wonder how well this method works."

Back in the day (the last time I built my own cabs from scratch) before these plans where flooded all over the web I had the Fane handbook. Fane would provide the plans for their 15" subs but simply up scaled their dimensions by multiplying the 15" sub dimensions by 1.2 if you wanted to build the 18” version. This seemed to work for them then (If you keep in mind the now dated designs). I am not sure the Tuba 30 & the 36 where designed by simply slapping a few extra inches here & a few extra inches there just to fit larger drivers inside the cabinets but even if it was... If it works then it works... I am YET to hear a bad review from someone who has built a Tuba so I can't see why you would knock the design. I don't see the designer posting all over the place "My design is better then yours" (unlike certain others around here & no I am not referring to you BHFProfessional ;o) ) the only thing I HAVE seen is a side by side graph comparison that lets you pick the bones out of it for yourself. There are MANY good sub designs out there & each fills a need, so there is no need to argue over what sub is better then the next because the needs of the consumer is so varied that there is no such thing a the perfect sub for EVERY application.
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[x]

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Re: The Tuba 36 debuts
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2005, 11:21:45 PM »

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blades976

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Re: The Tuba 36 debuts
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2005, 12:03:25 AM »

Johan wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 18:19

Maybe you could respond a little less offended?

Mvg Johan




Telling me I am not qualified to give an opinion of something I built with my own two hands is certainly not the best way to get on my good side.  


Johan wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 18:19


Just out of curiosity for the Tuba's: As an Tuba owner, can you say what the negative points are from the Tuba's you've got?



The drawbacks to the tubas thus far are the width of the larger models and the cabinets.  However if I were willing to sacrifice some performance I could scale the larger models down to 24" in width, however I am interested in peak performace.  Also the cabinets are IMO somewhat sensitive to eq adjustments.  I do not know if this is a rule for horns in general but change in sound from adjusting the eq on a tuba cabinet is very dramatic compared to reflex designs, at least that is how it appears to me.  I am somewhat gunshy when using eq's with the tuba cabinets because they don't seem to need any boost other than gain, and I am very wary of bottoming out the drivers, which I believe is not at all healthy in a horn loaded cabinet.  Performance wise I am sure that some output was sacrificed to gain the extra extension, but this doesn’t seem to be that big of a problem, I am satisfied with results thus far and there is an even louder (dual driver) version of the tuba36 in the works that should have a substantial amount of output.

Have fun

John
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Elliot Thompson

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Re: The Tuba 36 debuts
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2005, 02:56:34 AM »

blades976 wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 14:39



Before this thread gets stupid let me establish my goals in building the tubas.  Big bass for little money.  




This is the keyword.

I'll use QSC as an example.  

QSC RMX = A Lot Of Watts, Inexpensive

QSC PLX = A Lot Of Watts, lightweight, Competitive
pricing

QSC Powerlight = A Lot Of Watts, Lightweight, Heavy
Duty, Expensive.

There are some people that will go for the RMX,
and, some for the Powerlight. What each amp brings,
or doesn't bring to the table, is the deciding factor
upon purchasing.


If you are broke with little demand, build one of those
Tuba things, and, achieve bass. If you are a demanding
bastard (Like Myself  Very Happy ) you will invest in a better
box to suit your needs.

Many who have figured out the motive of the Tubas, stop
posting in these topics, for they don’t fit their needs.

So if your thinking the Tuba praise’s can offer the
same information as guys doing large scaled events…. Think again  Laughing


Best Regards,
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Elliot

Michael_Elliston¶

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Fact,not Name dropping
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2005, 06:05:03 AM »

blades976 wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 14:39

PATRICK GILLERT wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 07:33

Quote:

It was quite frustrating trying to get the Magnum15LF woofers to distort or cause throat distortion in the cabinets.


Maybe you and Bill should read some of the posts from Tom Danley about throat distortion in bass horns before make such comments.  He might know something about high spl's after all he has designed devices that can lift objects with just sound.  When you levitate some of the bottles at the liquor store across the street with your Tuba 36 then you can give a more qualified opinion.


Maybe you should build and test your own cabinets and then write a book or two about sound physics instead of simply dropping names in an attempt to sound intelligent.  As I stated in past threads I am not an audio expert and my opinions are based only on my own experiences.  I can give whatever opinion I wish concerning cabinets I built myself.  I find the liquor store story amusing because it is only one 12” driver causing all that commotion at ~ 100 yards with around 500 watts.  What have you built?  

Before this thread gets stupid let me establish my goals in building the tubas.  Big bass for little money.  

Comparing to other designs without taking economy into account has no interest to me.  Name-dropping does not impress me.  Critics who rely on simulations and not construction of cabinets are of no interest to me.  Saying you can do more with more is dumb.  Anybody who wishes to see detailed RTA graphs of these cabinets is more than welcome to mail me the test equipment.  I think that covers just about all the bases.  

Have fun

John


These threads can get abit silly.When the guys come with subjective experiences,and post them on a mostly objective board,somethings bound to happen. People didnt make the labhorn and say'wow this thing goes low and does amazing feats'-they measured it with RTA and measured distortion etc!
-Im just trying to see why theres such attitude here.



Tom Danley has posted regarding Throat distortion and how it does not appear on narrow bandwidth horns like the labhorn,and others.I dont have the posts handy,but eventually il find them and post them if your interested

Regards
Mike.e
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blades976

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Re: The Tuba 36 debuts
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2005, 07:27:06 AM »

Thus far the only measuring equipment I have is my ears, and life experiences.  This is fun hobby, and I sincerly hope everyone understands that it is all about entertainment.  If all goes well I'll get these things to the sub shootout in May and all shall see exactly where they stand in the food chain in terms of response and output.  

I terms of discovery, somebody always has to be first and I do not believe in sitting around waiting for someone else to deliver me information in a neat and tidy package, I'll go out and find out for myself.  Even if I do not yet posses the equipment to measure it with, I have the real thing, not a simulation.  I have asked the question before and heard nothing but silence:

"How many people took the labhorn seriously until SOMEONE ELSE built and measured them?"  

If it works, it works.  If not, it will be firewood.  Either way I will know while everyone else rings their hands on the sidelines.

Elliot, I drool at the mere thought of Powerlights hooked up to my tuba cabinets.  

In terms of the throat distortion issue, again I am not the audio expert.  Perhaps it would be better to put it as distortion caused via influence of the throat; the driver running out of motor force to compensate for the restriction in airflow imposed upon it by the throat opening.  

If you wait until you know everthing before you do something, you will never do anything.  

Until next time

John
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fernand

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Re: The Tuba 36 debuts
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2005, 11:51:23 AM »

I've seen many debates between engineers and scientists. There is a saying about the person managing a manufacturing plant:
With an engineer, everything works, but he doesn't know why.
With a scientist, nothing works, but he knows why.

So here, we have a unique opportunity to have those two worlds together. And to achieve the best compromise.

It might be a good idea to promote enthousiasm. After all, this is the beginning of each evolution.

Peace.
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Re: The Tuba 36 debuts
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2005, 12:05:36 PM »

I don't think it was a bad thing that Blades made a post here to call attention to the Tuba 36 and give some of his first, subjective impressions. It helps get people's attention so that when the measurements do finally appear, there's lots of people paying attention. On the Fitz board, Blades commented that he is taking measures to try and bring his tuba 36s to the Subwoofer Shootout that is going to be happening soon. So we know that if Blades can make it to the subwoofer shootout, we'll bee seeing some  measurements soon anyway.
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Craig Leerman

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Designs
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2005, 06:45:59 PM »

Quote:

This is fun hobby, and I sincerly hope everyone understands that it is all about entertainment.


While this may be a hobby for you, it is the DAY JOB for many on the board.  And I'm not sure what you mean by "It is all about entertainment"    

Quote:

"How many people took the labhorn seriously until SOMEONE ELSE built and measured them?"


Probably everyone who works in Live Audio, once they heard Tom Danley's name and Prosoundweb attached to the project.  Tom has a proven track record in audio design.

If you want to know why folks here seem to be a bit gruff and argumentative, look at this simple comparison.

Guy named Bill, works in a theatre, is little known outside the theater he works in, no experience designing and building speakers for a living, designs small speakers by himself using standard available drivers, measures designs with primitive test gear, runs forum populated by hobbyists and local musos. Then, Bill's designs are built by hobbyists, (none who publish any real test results from high end test gear) and are compared to other high end products, usually with no negative results published or discussed.  Bill's speaker designs are mostly targeted at folks on a limited budget, or folks working in small rooms/bars.


Guy named Tom, works in Audio and Defense, holds many patents in acoustics, proven track record of design including the unique SERVO DRIVE Subwoofer system and Acoustic Levitation projects, well known by most working audio pros, is asked by the moderators of the LARGEST INDUSTRY WEB SITE to spearhead a design project, receives input and collaboration from WORKING INDUSTRY PROS, designs project using high end programs, measures and tests design using state of the art test gear, gets a speaker company (Eminence) to MANUFACTURER a driver to the CABINETS SPECIFICATIONS, project forum is populated with mostly working audio pros with experience in cabinet construction. Then, Tom's design is built by pros, including many leading competing manufacturers, and subjected to tests including both with high end measurement equipment, and real world listening "shootouts",  results published included all aspects of performance in both test and real world experiences.  LAB Design targeted to folks who can pretty much afford any box, but want better performance than what was available commercially, and are doing large events requiring multiple boxes per side.

While overly simplified, you can see how its basically comparing not just Apples to Oranges, but more like comparing  a fruit to a vegetable.

Coming here and stating how good a Tuba or other small simple stand alone box is , would be like me going to an audiophile board and stating how my Technics 1200 turntable is DA SHIT!  

While a Tuba, and a Technics both have their place and may get the job done, to a working pro, a TUBA is just not gonna cut it (especially without seeing any good test data), like the Technics 1200 is not gonna cut it with the audiophile crowd.  I would expect to get quite a few negative responses to my post on the audiophile board. You should expect to get a few here as well.

Craig

Here is what I want for my next Home stereo (with additional LABS under the floor)  Still trying to talk the wife into it!  hehehe

index.php/fa/1010/0/
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Al Limberg

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Re: Designs
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2005, 07:09:56 PM »

Well said Craig.  It should also be mentioned that Tom Danley DID have a pair built by an un-named cabinet manufacturer to confirm his projections prior to releasing the final plans to those of us here.

AL
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If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get one million miles to the gallon, and explode once a year killing everyone inside - Robert X. Cringely
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