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Author Topic: digital console  (Read 10639 times)

Phil Ouellette

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Re: digital console
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2004, 01:50:35 pm »

Stuie wrote on Tue, 27 July 2004 08:29

Hi Tom

The only down side i can see with digital is the effects i have had this dicussion with a good friend of mine. Digital you are stuck witht he fx on board, yes you can purchase them as a rack but the idea of digital is to rid yourself of analogue racks.

Stuie


Ever hear of plug-ins?  I know you can plug the Waves Y56K FX card into a DM2000. Plus you can download different FX plug-ins into the DM1000 and DM2000 also.  Check this out link about Yamaha downloadable FX.

http://www.musiciansnews.com/31/yamaha_effects_packages_for_ digital_mixing_dm2000_dm1000_and.shtml

Mackie also supports downloaded FX plug-ins on the D8B and DXB digital consoles. I don't know if the new Mackie live digital board supports FX downloads, but I wouldn't be surprised it if did.

Phil
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Mac Kerr

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Re: digital console
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2004, 05:13:55 pm »

Stuie wrote on Tue, 27 July 2004 08:29

Hi Tom

I find digital a little hard for some of our riders as things are buried a bit deep for them. But i agree for an application like foldback digital has some serious appliactions, i you need an extra 6 foldback sends all that is need is a new board a hey presto. Its not like analogue um we need some serious dollars here fella do you need that kidney.

The only down side i can see with digital is the effects i have had this dicussion with a good friend of mine. Digital you are stuck witht he fx on board, yes you can purchase them as a rack but the idea of digital is to rid yourself of analogue racks.

For small churchs it is still cheaper long term to go a small 24 channel desk. But the future is changing so are our desks.

Cheers
Stuie
What is buried too deep? On a DM2000 all the normal controls have dedicated knobs and require NO menu. Patching and editing fx parameters do require menus or an external computer, but you can't edit them from the surface of an analog console either.

How are you stuck with the internal fx? There are plenty of inputs and outputs to attach any external fx device you want. Just because it is convenient to have no external racks doesn't mean you have to.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: digital console
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2004, 05:31:25 pm »

TheMAXX wrote on Mon, 19 July 2004 14:05

snip

I am hoping that we will be able to get a digital console for our new church building. At a meeting last week when I mentioned the PM5DH to one of the acoustic/audio consultants, his hesitation was the 56-channel limit (according to him). We have 3 different types of services on a Sunday, so the recall feature for the size console we would need would come in very handy. Which digital consoles do you think are good for live use?

You might point out to your consultant that the PM5D can only control 64 input channels at any one time, 48 mono in 8 stereo in. That is all the faders it has. It can have access many as 124 inputs by using 16 channel digital I/O cards in the 4 slots, or 92 inputs using 8 channel analog cards. The 16 channel digital cards also give you 16 outputs each. The inputs can be repatched on a cue by cue basis if you need more than 48 plus 8 stereo in any given service. The DM2000 has no DCA's, and is a little harder to get around, but it has a full 96 channels available all the time with 16 channel digital input cards. I have little experience with the PM5D (at this point no one has much), but have mixed many live shows on DM2000 and PM1D over the past 2 years.

Mac Kerr

ps Where are you in SW CT? I am in Westchester County NY
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Kevin Maxwell AKA TheMAXX

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Re: digital console
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2004, 07:57:37 pm »

Mac Kerr wrote on Tue, 27 July 2004 17:31

TheMAXX wrote on Mon, 19 July 2004 14:05

snip

I am hoping that we will be able to get a digital console for our new church building. At a meeting last week when I mentioned the PM5DH to one of the acoustic/audio consultants, his hesitation was the 56-channel limit (according to him). We have 3 different types of services on a Sunday, so the recall feature for the size console we would need would come in very handy. Which digital consoles do you think are good for live use?

You might point out to your consultant that the PM5D can only control 64 input channels at any one time, 48 mono in 8 stereo in. That is all the faders it has. It can have access many as 124 inputs by using 16 channel digital I/O cards in the 4 slots, or 92 inputs using 8 channel analog cards. The 16 channel digital cards also give you 16 outputs each. The inputs can be repatched on a cue by cue basis if you need more than 48 plus 8 stereo in any given service. The DM2000 has no DCA's, and is a little harder to get around, but it has a full 96 channels available all the time with 16 channel digital input cards. I have little experience with the PM5D (at this point no one has much), but have mixed many live shows on DM2000 and PM1D over the past 2 years.

Mac Kerr

ps Where are you in SW CT? I am in Westchester County NY


Thanks for the reply Mac. That’s what I thought and what I tried to tell him but I am not sure he understood. This guy is from the Acoustic/tech firm that was brought in. Sometimes a prophet isn’t recognized in his home land. Or is that the loss. So I will just keep nudging them but keep my distance.

I am in Fairfield CT.
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Kevin Maxwell
Freelance Audio Eng. QBE

Dan Costello

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Re: digital console
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2004, 02:01:11 am »

Quote:

the thing is that people come and think that they are engineers and move around all of my settings


Hmmm... nobody seems to have touched on this yet.

1) Why are these people back there?

2) Do they need to be back there?

2a) If so, do they need to be touching the stuff they're touching?

2aa) If not, can you show them how to do it properly, and break their fingers for not doing it correctly?

-Dan.
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Dan Costello

"Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.."

Mac Kerr

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Re: digital console
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2004, 01:22:57 pm »

ivan wrote on Mon, 19 July 2004 20:10

does anyone recomend me where to buy all my gear very cheap? any internet company, or guitar center type ?
so far i havent been helped w/all my inquieres. please help
You can shop for your gear yourself as easily as we can. In none of your posts have you mentioned what your budget is, or where you are located. If you think your budget will allow for only a 01V96 you can easily do a Google search and come up with lots of places selling on the internet. Most of the pricing services have ratings for the vendors. You can compare those prices with whatever you can get from a more local vendor who MIGHT be able to offer you after sale support. You will have to make the call about how to buy. The 01V96 is reputed to be a great little board. I have not used one myself, and would recommend biting the bullet and moving up to a $4-5k DM1000, which is an amazing little board. If you church has the funds, at $7k the Mackie TT24 looks like a very easy to use expandable console. There has been recent feedback in these forum as to it's ease of use.

Good luck with whatever you do

Mac Kerr
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Tom Young

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Re: digital console
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2004, 03:51:36 pm »

"For small churchs it is still cheaper long term to go a small 24 channel desk. But the future is changing so are our desks."

The future may be now. Granted, the Mackie TT24 is not a proven product yet. But if you were to add up the costs for an analog system including a 24-channel mixer, several stereo effects and 1/2 dozen channels of dynamics processing..... the Mackie TT24 would cost about the same or just a bit more. And it offers more inputs plus 4-band parametric EQ on each input, etc, etc.

So once this product has established itself, in my opinion it will represent a very good value for small and large (read: poor and not so poor) HOW.
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Tom Young, Church Sound section moderator
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Mac Kerr

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Re: digital console
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2004, 03:09:03 pm »

Tom Young wrote on Sun, 01 August 2004 15:51

"For small churchs it is still cheaper long term to go a small 24 channel desk. But the future is changing so are our desks."

The future may be now. Granted, the Mackie TT24 is not a proven product yet. But if you were to add up the costs for an analog system including a 24-channel mixer, several stereo effects and 1/2 dozen channels of dynamics processing..... the Mackie TT24 would cost about the same or just a bit more. And it offers more inputs plus 4-band parametric EQ on each input, etc, etc.

So once this product has established itself, in my opinion it will represent a very good value for small and large (read: poor and not so poor) HOW.
At a 7 kilobuck price point the TT24 looks pretty attractive. It still has no real input routing, and fx returns are on a separate layer. I don't have a problem with consoles that require layers, it is no secret that I am a big DM2000-PM1D fan and user, it's just that you should be able to assign stuff to the layer you need to create workable mix setups. I think the DM1000 offers more for a little less than TT24, however it is not as easy to navigate. The user interface of the TT24 seems good. For groups with a bigger budget who might have been thinking about a PM3500 or a used 4K or XL3, The new Yamaha PM5D at am MSRP of $49k should blow them away. Midas H3000 users who have tried it have been very impressed with the sound, and it is the easiest Yamaha to operate.

Mac Kerr
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ivan

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Re: digital console
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2004, 12:23:37 pm »

my problem is the budget, i only have 11K for everything. i need to buy speakers, di, amps, cross over, electronic drum set, desk, cables, etc.

i am trying to save as much as possible. if you checked the pictures of my church, you'll see that it's a small  church, i have problems w/ acoustic (lots of echos for example when you clap)

i would love to buy a dm1000, but i can't afford it, since the speakers, amps etc is like 4,300.

thanks for your help. and please feel free to help me
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Mac Kerr

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Re: digital console
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2004, 01:20:19 pm »

ivan wrote on Thu, 05 August 2004 12:23

my problem is the budget, i only have 11K for everything. i need to buy speakers, di, amps, cross over, electronic drum set, desk, cables, etc.

i am trying to save as much as possible. if you checked the pictures of my church, you'll see that it's a small  church, i have problems w/ acoustic (lots of echos for example when you clap)

i would love to buy a dm1000, but i can't afford it, since the speakers, amps etc is like 4,300.

thanks for your help. and please feel free to help me
Without a real breakdown of what you are spending on what it is hard to say, but it sure looks like a 24 mic pre DM1000 w/ADA8000 and ADAT card can squeeze into your budget. The board should be around $5k complete with meter bridge. You don't need a road case. Add $4300 for amps and speakers, I don't know what else you have in that "etc.", but that leaves $1700 for your electronic drums and accessories. It IS tight, but it seems do-able. The advantage is upgrade ability to 48 in, all input processing included. There are a lot things not in your first list you will eventually want which are included in a DM1000.

Mac
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Re: digital console
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2004, 01:20:19 pm »


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