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Author Topic: BillFitzmaurice DIY15" alleged to compete with Lab Sub????  (Read 49069 times)

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Re: BillFitzmaurice DIY15" alleged to compete with Lab Sub????
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2004, 10:58:44 am »

Hey Walt,

I'm glad you're interested in my Crusher horn. My Crusher horn is intended to be an answer to the call for smaller, more transportable horn-loaded enclosures, for those who find the LAB to be too big and bulky, and who can be content with slightly less deep bass response. There have been many who report that they would rather carry a larger number of smaller enclosures than a small number of really big enclosures. There are lots of people who don't think the HL-10 is as perfect for horn-loading as Eminence advertises, but it has been demonstrated in another thread on this board that you can get perfectly acceptable response out of the HL-10 as long as you've got a relatively small horn throat. I also took a little bit of inspiration from Bill Fitzmaurice's designs, which use a slightly largish rear chamber to let the horn have that little bit of extra extension in the range of transition from horn loading to direct radiating. The only thing is, I don't know too well how this will affect power handling. I may decide to make it smaller.I realize that my design has almost the same external dimensions as your Punisher, so we're almost in competition on this, but my goal in this is not to "Crush" the punisher (The name instead comes from the sort of output you'll get when you stack a bunch of my boxes together) but instead to provide a good, small horn for the Eminence HL-10. There was word of a horn designed by Eminence for the HL-10, but that has yet to materialize. I think it's a good idea at this point to let you know how my horn differs from your Punisher horn: My horn has a larger compression chamber (not extremely large, but large enough to accomodate the driver's entire mechanical excursion) and a different folding pattern nearer the horn. Also, it does not use battens to mount the driver access panel, but instead has an extra layer of 1/2" plywood on the side walls of the entire horn. While it's tough to describe my way of having the access panel, it will be apparent from my drawings.

The other problem is that in the United States, the Ciare product line isn't exactly super-available as best I can tell (I haven't looked super hard but in my Google search I didn't turn up any American sellers). Eminence products, on the other hand, are very widely available. The 12.00SW is certainly an interesting driver, though. I haven't had time to get my Crusher horn into Hornresp. that will probably come in the next week or so.
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Walt de Jong

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Re: BillFitzmaurice DIY15" alleged to compete with Lab Sub????
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2004, 11:28:59 am »

Hello,

There is a guy here in Holland who is building 8 Punishers, he uses aluminium plates just as with the LAB subs. People can do whatever they like just make sure there is a way to get the driver out. This next guy didn't do that but his pictures are still nice. He said he didn't think he would ever blow a driver therefore he doesn't use T-nuts:

http://members.home.nl/denniselshout/Punisher/

Best regards,

Walt
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Mark Seaton

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Re: BillFitzmaurice DIY15" alleged to compete with Lab Sub????
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2004, 12:14:44 pm »

BHFProfessional wrote on Thu, 04 November 2004 09:58

The other problem is that in the United States, the Ciare product line isn't exactly super-available as best I can tell (I haven't looked super hard but in my Google search I didn't turn up any American sellers). Eminence products, on the other hand, are very widely available. The 12.00SW is certainly an interesting driver, though. I haven't had time to get my Crusher horn into Hornresp. that will probably come in the next week or so.


Hi BH-

Just for reference, the 12SW driver and other CIARE products are available through Assitance Audio where it is listed at $165.  Eminence certainly has the greater distribution and some cost savings, and I would say when used intelligently (in regards to box design and powering) are very durable.  It is of course a matter of weighing the many opposing desires.

Cheers,
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Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." - Daniel H. Burnham

Mark Seaton

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Re: BillFitzmaurice DIY15" alleged to compete with Lab Sub????
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2004, 12:25:22 pm »

[quote title=Blind Johnny wrote on Wed, 03 November 2004 21:14][quote title=Mark Seaton wrote on Wed, 03 November 2004 14:30]
Peter wrote on Wed, 03 November 2004 00:37

Hi Mark,

 Our upcoming bDeap-R looks to do very close to the sub 40Hz output of 4 LABs, where the directivity as seen in the bDeap-32 give even a pair equal or better performance than 4 LABs above 40Hz.  The response is certainly a lot smoother.  I will plan to post some measurements I have on our forum.

Can you tell us a little more about this now?



Basically the design of the box is 95% finalized, and fine for install, while I am working on options for offset skid pads to make clustering and portability easier.  We are just waiting for the input plates with the proper name.  I have some measurements of a pair in the same upright configuration as we have posted on our website, where this box offers ~6dB more output at 30Hz over a pair of bDeap-32s with equal output above about 45Hz.  The box is a square (no truncated corner) at the same 42" dimension where the thickness is increased to 20" from the 18" dimension of the bDeap-32.  Cost is about 10-12% greater.  For down-firing, stand mounting, the bDeap-32 can still fit under smaller deck heights. This will be a definite improvement for portable use.

We can discuss further details in our "what's happening" forum.

Cheers,
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Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." - Daniel H. Burnham

Michael_Elliston¶

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Re: BillFitzmaurice DIY15" alleged to compete with Lab Sub????
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2004, 03:34:41 pm »

BHFProfessional wrote on Thu, 04 November 2004 13:30

Higher Flatter bass - you mean less-extended, less-deep bass? Or higher-level bass in terms of how far you can push things before they start blowing up? Or, perhaps you mean flatter bass, higher up in the horn's frequency range.

Less extended less deep bass,more flatter response bass.

Quote:


but downwards. Then the first section of horn follows that sort of slanted thingy up to where it can connect with the section that runs along the top.

The 'slanted thingy' reduces the Vtc,increasing HF slightly due less volume in front chamber (Vtc)The horn is presumed to start at the drivers edge on this type of horn.(from what ive seen of it)


Quote:

I also took a little bit of inspiration from Bill Fitzmaurice's designs, which use a slightly largish rear chamber to let the horn have that little bit of extra extension in the range of transition from horn loading to direct radiating. The only thing is, I don't know too well how this will affect power handling

Decreased power handling at flare cut off and below.

His rear chambers are purposely large-because he uses high Fs drivers which dont requite a miniature sealed box to bump the Fs up.
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Re: BillFitzmaurice DIY15" alleged to compete with Lab Sub????
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2004, 12:17:48 am »

Thanks for filling me in. Actually, now that I've made some bigger, to-scale drawings, it looks as though the rear chamber isn't really all that big at all. At least the flare cutoff is low enough (I determined the actual horn length to be 90", so it's actually 38Hz, which is relatively close to the HL-10's 32Hz Fs) that I should get okay cone control even that low. Since each horn will only have a single 10", it won't handle a bazillion watts, but it should have good extension and overall sound. I'll have to wait until next summer to build and test an actual one, provided I have income. You see, I'm currently doing the college thing at Purdue University, and so I can only work during the summer.
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bgavin (Bruce Gavin)

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Re: BillFitzmaurice DIY15" alleged to compete with Lab Sub????
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2004, 09:20:17 am »

There are laws of physics standing between 36 Hz and a small box.  

Ain't gonna happen.

Despite the protests the contrary, even HornResponse takes the CIR into consideration.  The is the mouth circumference/wavelength relationship.

A small mouth is going to choke your bass response.
Too short an air column is going to choke your bass response.
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Michael_Elliston¶

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Re: BillFitzmaurice DIY15" alleged to compete with Lab Sub????
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2004, 04:38:12 am »

Theres a huge difference in volume between an ideal horn-and one that works with a lesser than optimal sensitivity. The question is just a personal one,of how much exactly you want to compromise.

Yes hornresp does even include CIR which is always a handy check.
Bear in mind that he plans on using several boxes,with all that added mouth the higher bass frequencies will be supported instead.

Cheers
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bgavin (Bruce Gavin)

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Re: BillFitzmaurice DIY15" alleged to compete with Lab Sub????
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2004, 03:44:14 pm »

Yes, his mouth area will be closer to optimal, but the air column length will still fall short.

There is a mile of difference between a 32 Hz horn and a 60 Hz one.
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Graeme Goodacre [Centauri

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Re: horn length
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2004, 01:30:01 am »

If the 90" path is measured as the physical centre of the flare, the accoustic length will be slightly longer due to accoustic centre of bends not being physical centre.  If the driver can be matched well to the horn, then I can't see any reason why a real world 40Hz should not be achievable.

Cheers
Graeme
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