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Author Topic: Audio setup 80,000 cubic feet  (Read 2536 times)

zombiemike

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Audio setup 80,000 cubic feet
« on: October 29, 2004, 03:52:41 pm »

Hey,
I'm a complete newbie who needs to set up a PA/Speakers in a gymnasium that is 80x45x22 (79,200 cu. ft.) It will mainly be used to microphones, however, it will be used few times a year for dj music at dances/parties. I need PA and speaker suggestions...wattage...speaker placement. Basically everything and anything anyone can suggest. Confused
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Rob Timmerman

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Re: Audio setup 80,000 cubic feet
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2004, 04:09:36 pm »

OK, what will this system be used for?  Rock band?  Speech?  Church worship?  Announcements?

If there is a stage, where will it be?  In a corner?  In the center of the room?  Along one wall?

Will this be permanently installed, or does it need to be portable?

What is the experience level of the operators?

And finally, what's your budget?

The more information you can provide, the better the responses you will get.

-Rob
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zombiemike

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Re: Audio setup 80,000 cubic feet
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2004, 04:22:31 pm »

Hey, thanks.
The setup will be used probably for speech primarily, however it would need to be able to handle dj music when we hold events/dances there a few times a year. There is a stage the length of the wall on the far side of the gym (along a 45' wall). The people who will operate it are inexperienced at best so simplicity helps. Doesn't have to be portable, although if we set up speakers opposite the stage, perhaps they should be wall mounted. As far as price goes, as reasonable as possible, without buying crap that will die in 2 years. We are a non profit agency.index.php/fa/660/0/index.php/fa/661/0/
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Andy Peters

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Re: Audio setup 80,000 cubic feet
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2004, 05:14:07 pm »

index.php/fa/661/0/

Talk about acoustic nightmares...

-a
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Dave Walker

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Re: Audio setup 80,000 cubic feet
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2004, 05:41:34 pm »

The best thing you could do right now is call a few experienced sound contractors and have them come do a site survey so they can put together an intelligent proposal.
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Bennett Prescott

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Re: Audio setup 80,000 cubic feet
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2004, 05:51:38 pm »

Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 29 October 2004 17:14

Talk about acoustic nightmares...


Seriously. Don't try this one on your own, or even with the well-intentioned advice of LAB-ers. That space is a nightmare, and it's only going to sound remotely good with the assessment of a professional acoustician. If you're stuck, e-mail me and I can try and point you in the right direction. Doing this the wrong way will only mean having to redo it in a few years.
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Rob Timmerman

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Re: Audio setup 80,000 cubic feet
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2004, 06:00:10 pm »

You should probably get an acoustical consultant to look at your room and design a system accordingly.  This will give you the best and most cost-effective results, given inexperienced users.  An installed system for the speech and a pair of portable powered speakers for the dances and other events would probably be your best bet.

That said, were I designing the system, I would probably use an Electrovoice EVI-12 at the apex of the room above the stage (~$1000 installed).  This would be driven by one side of a QSC RMX 1450 (~$400) amplifier, a DSP (probably dbx 220i) (~$600), and a Shure scm-268 mixer (~$250).  Add mics (3-pack of Sennheiser 835) (~$200), cables and stands (~$100), a tape deck/cd player (~$300), and a cabinet for the equipment (~$200) and you're talking about 3 grand.

I would also get a pair of powered speakers, such as the JBL Eon G2  and a pair of speaker stands (~$1500 for the package) for the dances and other uses.  As a bonus, you can plug a microphone into most of the powered speakers available today.

You could also use the powered speakers for announcements, although you probably won't get as good results as with an installed system.  

Summary: Get a pair of powered speakers with stands and a Shure SM-58 (get the switched version) or Sennheiser 835 microphone, a mic stand, and a couple mic cables and extension cords now, and hire an acoustical consultant if you want something more permanent that will sound better and be easier to use.

-Rob
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Karl P(eterson)

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Re: Audio setup 80,000 cubic feet
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2004, 12:45:24 am »

No offense Rob, but you need to be careful here,

The sound system you "might" design for that room doesn't include any provisions for anything more than voice only applications. If we are talking DJ's, or even music during an event (sports) you'll need 1 to 3 more top boxes and subs. Possibly more than that if a distributed system needs to be installed because of acoustics.

If there was to be an installed system in that room, it would either require acoustic work of some (rather extensive work at that, in all likelihood) kind or very directional and controlled speakers. Of course all of this costs money.

You mention having a pair of speaker on sticks for dances/dj's etc. I don't know what particular school this is, but around here, that requires more gear than 2 speakers on sticks, try more like 6, and subs. Of course in that space, just randomly placing speaker on sticks would most likely not have any kind of happy outcome unless you had someone very knowledgeable doing it.

In a space like that, a small routing dsp with interface control (think idr unit here) would be and overall much better choice. You can do a basic 2 wireless system and let the dsp automix, or have a small mixer there that can take over when you have a dance with dj's or even a small band.


I would (also) recommend that if they cant afford the above, to just get a e835 or two and some of the G2's with the built in mixer. But they would need to be very clear that this system is nothing more than a makeshift speech system with un guaranteed results.

Karl P
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Rob Timmerman

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Re: Audio setup 80,000 cubic feet
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2004, 01:48:33 am »

No offense Rob, but you need to be careful here,

The sound system you "might" design for that room doesn't include any provisions for anything more than voice only applications. If we are talking DJ's, or even music during an event (sports) you'll need 1 to 3 more top boxes and subs. Possibly more than that if a distributed system needs to be installed because of acoustics.

No offense taken.  A system that could reproduce high level music, especially in stereo AND intelligible speech would be an order of magnitude more expensive than a voice only system.  If the budget were there, it would be great to have such a system, but my impression is that the budget isn't there.  Also, don't forget that this is a gym, and any clusters in the room are potentially going to be hit by basketballs.  What any installed system looks like is of course up to what the client wants and can afford.

If there was to be an installed system in that room, it would either require acoustic work of some (rather extensive work at that, in all likelihood) kind or very directional and controlled speakers. Of course all of this costs money.

No argument here


You mention having a pair of speaker on sticks for dances/dj's etc. I don't know what particular school this is, but around here, that requires more gear than 2 speakers on sticks, try more like 6, and subs. Of course in that space, just randomly placing speaker on sticks would most likely not have any kind of happy outcome unless you had someone very knowledgeable doing it.


I agree that subs would be a good idea, but in a portable system run be inexperienced operators, I'm not sure that the benefits outweigh the pitfalls.  I've seen a room a bit larger than this covered adequately with a pair of SRM450s for a DJ, and remember that in a reverberant space, you don't need as much power to get loud.  More power is always nice to have, but I think that a pair of powered speakers on sticks will be adequate, not stupid-loud, but adequate, without breaking the bank.


In a space like that, a small routing dsp with interface control (think idr unit here) would be and overall much better choice. You can do a basic 2 wireless system and let the dsp automix, or have a small mixer there that can take over when you have a dance with dj's or even a small band.


Agreed, but at somewhat higher cost.


I would (also) recommend that if they cant afford the above, to just get a e835 or two and some of the G2's with the built in mixer. But they would need to be very clear that this system is nothing more than a makeshift speech system with un guaranteed results.

Karl P


I don't think that it will be possible to get good speech intelligibility in that space without professional design.  That said, powered speakers on sticks can be useful in places other than the gym, and (I think) would work for DJs.  

But, as always, YMMV

-Rob
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