ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down

Author Topic: JBL2226H  (Read 11153 times)

raj

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 124
    • http://-
Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2004, 01:16:03 am »

Here is something interesting , I tried placing 15" scoops as Mark Seaton had placed the Servodrive BD 32 ,s in the sub shootout . I placed four scoops keeping two scoops horizontally on the ground , the horn part of the two scoops nearest to each other , then another two on top of them in the same way , like this the horn part of all four scoops was like one big horn, and there was tremendous change in the sound pressure we could feel the bass all over . Eirlear I used to place four scoops in a row . Now I have adapted this configration and place upto six scoops in the same way in three layers .


The following is text by Elliot Thompson describing various ways of sub placement , tried out by Mark Seaton .


((  Posted by Elliot Thompson on September 02, 2003 at 03:47:26:

Hello All!

Here is my take on the Subwoofer Shootout held in Club
Blis, August 27, 2003


Servodrive BD 32
Let me be the first to say, the BD 32 was designed to use with some

kind of boundary
(preferably a wall) in which, it did not have, in the Subwoofer Shootout. I

wouldn’t say the Boundary Dependent 32 had a fair test. Kudos to Mark

Seaton that tried numerous configurations to give us an idea on what

was theory behind the BD 32. Since I arrived late, I missed the BD 32

calculated measurements. Paul if you have the numbers, please share

them with us. I heard three configurations. One using the all for BD 32’s

stacked two high, two wide, having the mouth’s exit couple together. The

amount of air pressure from the BD 32, is beyond belief. No one was

bold enough to stand in front of them, while they were in action. The air

pressure was just too great for the human ear to handle. The next

configuration was using two BD 32’s in a exponential fashion. Basically,

the configuration resembled this ^ Where the exit of the mouth would be

in the closed section, and, the cabinets were used as flares (Semi flare

so to speak) And, the final configuration had two BD 32’s facing each

other, and a third BD 32 blocking one exit path, having the sound

escaping in one direction. (More over like a tunnel path) Although, BD

32, was designed for a install or an esoteric home hi fidelity home

theater system (In my opinion), I still walked away very impressed with

BD 32. It’s a shame, the Basstech 7, and/or, Lab Subs never made it. ))
Logged
RL

Michael_Elliston¶

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 261
    • http://www.geocities.com/xobt
Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2004, 11:10:29 am »

Hi Tootall

Yes i understand the interactions on the bassmaxx-usually it wont matter so much with LPF.

Im all for lowest distortion subs not musical ones  Very Happy

Even if the front loaded rear sealed design had a 'hard' sound -and the open back ones sound nicer - I dont care - I beleive in  the absolute facts  Laughing

35hz corner horn for my 2226 as soon as i can afford it!

Question
Hornresp shows,with increased mouth area(ie 2/4cabs in 2pi) that response does NOT go lower in frequency-but simply flatter and higher freq response. This is contrary to what many experience and say-that the stacks go lower! Are these 2 things different circumstances,although related.

Cheers!

Logged

Too Tall (Curtis H. List)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1591
Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2004, 01:43:33 pm »

mike_nz wrote on Wed, 27 October 2004 11:10

Hi Tootall

Yes i understand the interactions on the bassmaxx-usually it wont matter so much with LPF.

Im all for lowest distortion subs not musical ones  Very Happy

Even if the front loaded rear sealed design had a 'hard' sound -and the open back ones sound nicer - I dont care - I beleive in  the absolute facts  Laughing

35hz corner horn for my 2226 as soon as i can afford it!

Question
Hornresp shows,with increased mouth area(ie 2/4cabs in 2pi) that response does NOT go lower in frequency-but simply flatter and higher freq response. This is contrary to what many experience and say-that the stacks go lower! Are these 2 things different circumstances,although related.

Cheers!




Well as the man said "I'm not a horn designer, but I have played one on TV!"

With that in mind if I'm understanding your question you feel that when you listen to a stack of JBL scoops they go lower, but the prediction software says no?

I would want to measure it to make sure your ears are telling the truth.

Also as you are playing with the horn program if the JBL horn design has some attribute like the length of the horn set to short, adding boxes in an array may not fix this.

Just a guess. I'm a Praxis and LspCAD kinda guy. The horn response programs give me a headache for some reason. I can build, measure and filter them, but not design them. The new LspCAD6 has a horn design program in it and I stay away from it too.  Wink

Logged
Too Tall
        Curtis H. List    
             Bridgeport, Mich.   
        I.A.T.S.E. Local # 274 (Gold Card)
        Lansing, Mich
Independent Live Sound Engineer (and I'm Tall Too!)

Elliot Thompson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1573
Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2004, 02:30:06 pm »

Hello raj.

Once you mentioned the Subwoofer Shootout, your name fell in place.  Cool

You should read the comments in regards to another topic,in
which, I had questions pertaining, Full Space Or Half Space.

It may answer some questions, when the need arises.

 http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/2745/83/?SQ=07f7 192e74bf09960d5e2e2b2906d5a5


Too Tall

I want to appologize for calling you Triple J, in that post.

I was reading one of Triple J's post in the archives, and,
typing your reply as well.


Best Regards,

Logged
Elliot

Michael_Elliston¶

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 261
    • http://www.geocities.com/xobt
Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2004, 06:47:07 am »

My problem is that my modeling program doesnt do what i expect-

I 'know' that more horns = go lower and louder

But hornresp doesnt suggest this when you double/quadruple the mouth area represting another horn in the stack.

I design my horns long - but with 1/4 sized 2pi mouths.

I get a joiner to cut my sub boxes - design them and put them together  Laughing

I know that with my jbl 35hz horn il have enough output-because my current box which is ~93db/1watt at 33hz is just loud enough -makes me deaf,but i know the horn will sound better in many ways and i have to try one  Very Happy

Interesting how EAW has the BH series with a 13ft horn with 2 12"s!

Our local club has 2 WSX bins in a 6x8m dancefloor its great! you can be physically vibrated! can hear the subs for a whole block away.

Can you get 33hz output(clean) with 4labs in 2pi space? Or was tom listing the Cutoff? The cutoff flare freq with front loaded rear sealed horns-the sealed rear chamber INCREASES excursion at cutoff but reduces it at lower freqs (compared to a scoop)
-so when you add the sealed rear chamber the frequency response graph LOOKS flatter- but if you look at excursion plot,that extra lows isnt usable at high power!
-Mcbeans program seems right in the low end.

Cheers!
Logged

Graeme Goodacre [Centauri

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 133
    • http://www.centauriaudio.com.au
Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2004, 08:04:42 am »

mike_nz wrote on Thu, 28 October 2004 20:47

My problem is that my modeling program doesnt do what i expect-

I 'know' that more horns = go lower and louder


Hi Mike,

I think that because you hear more of the lows due to increased efficiency, it probably gives a subjective illusion of going lower even though the extension was actually there before.

The WSXs can certainly move some air, but the Lab should go lower - really depends on the program material.

I see by your drawing you have seen the pics of the Tuba30.... Very Happy

Cheers
Graeme
Logged

Too Tall (Curtis H. List)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1591
Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2004, 10:41:11 am »

mike_nz wrote on Thu, 28 October 2004 06:47

My problem is that my modeling program doesnt do what i expect-

I 'know' that more horns = go lower and louder

But hornresp doesnt suggest this when you double/quadruple the mouth area represting another horn in the stack.

I design my horns long - but with 1/4 sized 2pi mouths.



Ok, so that is taken care of. I see one cabinet is designed to work with a much bigger horn mouth.
   To an extent you see the same thing with the LAB sub. If you use one you need to use a filter to erase the wide peak around 70Hz or so. Then you have a fairly flat response down to about 33Hz. This is not 10dB or even 3dB down This is flat to 33hz, though you lost sensitivity to make it happen.

If you add more boxes to make a bigger mouth things stretch out and the peak gets wider and shallower while the response does not go a lot deeper. I think you are seeing the same thing.

I have to agree with Graeme. Like I said in a previous post you need to measure and not count only on your ears. As he states a simple level change will make you think you hear more low end.


Snip-


mike_nz wrote on Thu, 28 October 2004 06:47


Can you get 33hz output(clean) with 4labs in 2pi space? Or was tom listing the Cutoff?



You can hear 33Hz clean, clear and LOUD from a single horn out in the middle of a room. You have to watch out though because it is right at the tip of a very steep slope that can rip the driver to shreds if you let in anything under that. For a single box to be safe you need to put the high pass above that unless you know you will keep the SPL down.

Two boxes out in the open is much better bet and even then watch what you put into it. AL has been using a pair of subs for most of his work, but the material is centered more around 40Hz-60Hz. A rave calls for more cabinets or move the high pass up some.
   The LABs sound great, but there is no magic involved.
Too Tall
Logged
Too Tall
        Curtis H. List    
             Bridgeport, Mich.   
        I.A.T.S.E. Local # 274 (Gold Card)
        Lansing, Mich
Independent Live Sound Engineer (and I'm Tall Too!)

Michael_Elliston¶

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 261
    • http://www.geocities.com/xobt
Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2004, 09:51:15 pm »

yep Mdf is heavy Laughing

Ive cut holes in MDF before-but circles with a holesaw are much easier.

I think that because you hear more of the lows due to increased efficiency, it probably gives a subjective illusion of going lower even though the extension was actually there before

The problem is also that its in texts like the Dinsdale horn files-im not sure about the Edgar horn files- but everyone says it so it must be true  Confused ? any word of this in the AES ?

Cheers

Logged

Michael_Elliston¶

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 261
    • http://www.geocities.com/xobt
Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2004, 09:56:11 pm »

Brad Litz' labhorn modeling definatly shows this effect Wink
The cone excursion peaks wildly at the Flare cutoff,but is perfectly fine just a few Hz lower  Very Happy  Laughing

Im greatly interested in the facts-not peoples subjective experience they tell me 'Wow 4 of these boxes go way lower than 2!' and then i tell them ,well my modeling program is always correct in the low end - and it doesnt predict this-so Im glad youve told me your experience!

I think a users manual which is a MUST download for all people who download the plans-will get it-so that less drivers are destroyed! Its sad to see such wastage and annoyance caused by ill treatment and ill understanding users.

Cheers!
Mike.e
Logged

raj

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 124
    • http://-
Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2004, 01:00:42 am »

Elliot Thompson
Thanks the thread  "Full Space Or Half Space." is interesting and informative

regards
Logged
RL
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.055 seconds with 19 queries.