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Author Topic: JBL2226H  (Read 11151 times)

Tom Herr

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Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2004, 08:08:47 am »

Mike

4 scoops will go down to 40 hz. Of coarse that depends on the box design. The scoops I have are not JBL scoops. I built these about 10 years ago, from prints an associate had.

4 of them side by side do sound pretty good for what they are. However in a scoop there are phase issues. Sound from the back of the driver has a bit further to travel before exiting the cab vs the front.

As for power capacity. I have never run the numbers to see but I would think in the scoop there is less back pressure so probably no increase. Most likely a decrease. But the 2226 is a very tuff driver. Mine have a years of shows on them and I have yet to blow one.  
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Tom Herr
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Michael_Elliston¶

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Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2004, 06:11:33 am »

What size scoops? 200litre?300 ?

Im sure that frontloaded will work better.

Cheers!
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Alan Searchwell

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Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2004, 01:14:55 pm »

Tom,

Would your scoops happen to be the ones described on this page (link to plans near bottom of page):

http://www.dancetech.com/aa_dt_new/pa/15-scoop.cfm

This seems to be the closest to the scoops I have. Mine measure 24"x24"x42" externally and are loaded with 2226. I power them with either a QSC PLX 3002,PLX 3402 (two per channel) or a PLX 1602 bridged mono driving two. They do quite nicely when not pushed too hard, especially in groups of four or more. They do exhibit quite a bit of harmonic distortion when driven hard, the lowest octave seems to disappear and they begin to sound quite "boomy". One by itself is quite ineffective and I avoid using them as singles for all but the smallest of gigs. Another thing, if you pump too much very deep bass into these boxes with the 2226 it WILL destroy the driver. I discovered this after I got back a PLX from a rental and did not notice that the customer had switched off the 35Hz high pass filter. I had just re coned two 2226s and they didn't last the night.

I have received my LAB12s and bought most of the material to build four Lab subs. I expect them to be a substantial improvement over the eight scoops. I have been wondering if the scoops can work with the Labs if I make them do the duty above the crossover point of 80 Hz. I read somewhere that they are most efficient somewhere around 80Hz and drop to the efficiency of a normal front loaded box as you approach the mid frequencies. Any thoughts?


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Tom Herr

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Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2004, 02:33:31 pm »

Alan
Can't say for sure. But dimensions seem about right. I would have to find the prints and compare them. As I said before I built them about 10 years ago. Prints are most likely history.

If I remember right and it's been awhile since I have used them, I think I used to set the high pass at 40 hz. I origianlly powered them with big crown then later switched to QSC's 1 - RMX2450 bridged per pair.  And ran them right up to clipping. Never had a driver fail. But I am quite sure without the high pass filter I would have experienced several failures. Loud but not so great in clarity. Mostly a function of the box. In a BH500 the 2226's sound very good, as well as in a proper front load box. However I would take labhorns over either, anyday.
I have built a lot of boxes of various designs. Some great some not so great. The labhorn is definately the best overall sub I have ever built. Very clean sound, fairly flat response in the intended range, efficient, high output, and very dependable, in my experience.
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Tom Herr
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Michael_Elliston¶

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Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2004, 10:28:32 pm »

Problem!-Using generic designs for any driver doesnt guarantee good results!Especially with horn loaded enclosures!This was the whole point of the labhorn-To design the best driver possible for the required horn.

Playing with hornresp for 2minutes youl realise this.

Problems
1-Long rear loaded scoops have the inherent 'echo'delay from the two acoustic outputs
2-Lack of subsonic filtering
3-Lack of linearity due to no sealed box rear chamber-relies on driver spider(cms) linearity
4-Reactance annulling is impossible
5-Longer horn required for the same cutoff compared to Front loaded rear sealed horn.

Ofcourse a HPF deals with reducing the low freqs-but not with the linearity.

For Measurements on B1/Bzero/Labhorns see-
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/sbk1/so/ssi.htm
With associated link.

Cheers!
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raj

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Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2004, 01:45:51 am »


I like the sound of four scoops stacked side by side very much , inspite of all the DRAWBACKS of the design , they can produce earth shaking bass ,

I will say Old is Gold , also the size is average ,  another good feature is that  almost any driver sounds good in a scoop , in my scoops I have double spider drivers ,  the sound is always open and  even at full power the drivers are comfortable ,
Yes the new designs like the Lab Sub are definately better , we cannot compare the scoops to these ,  I want to make the Lab Subs but I would prefer a smaller enclosure as we mostly do small programmes, and cost of transportation is high .
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RL

Tim Padrick

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Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2004, 02:09:44 am »

If the cost of transport is high, I'd think LABs would be the answer, as I would expect one LAB to out-perform a pair of scoops in a number of areas (LF extension, distortion).  Then when you get a pair of LABS together it gets even "more better".

Michael_Elliston¶

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Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2004, 05:29:18 am »

Hi Alan.

If you input 600watts rms into a typical 40hz scoop the driver will have-
20mm excursion at 30hz
37mm excursion at 20hz

Where as with a rear chamber of appropriate size

13mm at 20hz
18mm at 30hz

So you can see why subsonic is so necessary
Also the nonlinear nature of the onesided horn comes into play at HIGH spl.

Youd have to have alot of path with efficient large mouthed horns.

Cheers!
Mike.e
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raj

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Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2004, 01:53:03 am »

TimmyP
You are right the Labs will outperform the scoops,
but regarding transportation and handling ,
the size of a 15" scoop is nearly half of one Lab Sub , 15" scoop size is 24"x24"x41", and Lab sub size is 22"x45"x45".

Mike.e
Thanks for recomending 40hz subsonic filter , eirlear I was using 25hz there is much more headroom now .
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Too Tall (Curtis H. List)

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Re: JBL2226H
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2004, 11:30:19 am »

mike_nz wrote on Tue, 05 October 2004 22:28

Problem!-Using generic designs for any driver doesnt guarantee good results!Especially with horn loaded enclosures!This was the whole point of the labhorn-To design the best driver possible for the required horn.

Playing with hornresp for 2minutes youl realise this.

Problems
1-Long rear loaded scoops have the inherent 'echo'delay from the two acoustic outputs
2-Lack of subsonic filtering
3-Lack of linearity due to no sealed box rear chamber-relies on driver spider(cms) linearity
4-Reactance annulling is impossible
5-Longer horn required for the same cutoff compared to Front loaded rear sealed horn.

Ofcourse a HPF deals with reducing the low freqs-but not with the linearity.

For Measurements on B1/Bzero/Labhorns see-
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/sbk1/so/ssi.htm
With associated link.

Cheers!


Hi Mike,
When I went to your link I see you say you could not find the original site for the shootout. (And yes some of the files are BIG Wink

   The original Michigan subwoofer shootout page was hosted by John Sheerin. When he graduated he lost his website and Mattie Bien was kind enough to host it.
Here is the current address-
http://shootout.mattiebien.com/





As to the problems caused by combining the front wave and back wave in a sub enclosure there are some compromises made to gain the extra energy, but some people like the result.

The Bassmax speakers are easy to criticize when looking at both the impulse response and the frequency response (The hole caused in the high bass from cancellation), but when listening they sound very nice. I just sold some home speakers that use a 7" Peerless in a TL (Transmission Line) that have the same symptoms, but people love the way the bass sounds. This TL is very close to the Bassmax in some respects.

   The main similarity is that the bass output from the back of the driver is a significant distance from the output on the front of the horn, never mind the length of the horn. Just looking at the actual exit points where it enters the room.

If you take those two sources and measure the cabinet at different places (an off axis polar pattern for instance) you will find that hole in the response changes to a peak, flat and then back to a hole depending on where you measure from. So the averaged "power response" to the room may be much smoother then it that one measurement shows. It certainly sounds like it when you listen in a room.

   I personally still liked the LAB sub's sound better then the Bassmax. To me it sounded tighter and clearer. To the owners of the Bassmax speakers it sounded a little to sterile or as they put it The LAB sub has the "closed box" sound.

OTOH considering I was listening in a room with a fairly low ceiling and sidewalls causing lots of room modes I wonder if could really overcome my prejudice toward something I worked on and helped create.

   In the end the only thing I can point to with certainty is the LAB subs went a little lower and a little louder down at its cutoff, while the Bassmax has a bump a little higher up.
   For the people there anyone who could not do the woodwork to build a LAB thought the price and performance of the Bassmax was a worthy choice.


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Too Tall
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