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Author Topic: What Consoles will fit?  (Read 3960 times)

Kurt Rivers

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What Consoles will fit?
« on: September 16, 2004, 05:26:15 pm »

At a place where I am a audio engineer the console is really going dead. It's a Soundtracs Megas 40ch 8 bus. Last night the channel 1(kick) would not work in the L+R bus or busses 1-2. Their where a few others having bus problems too. We are running 4 mon send on it now and their are always problems with some things not working some to much. It looks like it is going to die in the next month or so so I'm out looking at consoles to get some ideas. It's actually a gym with a big theater like stage in the wall. We could really use more monitor mixes and maybe 1 or 2 headphone/IEM mixes. The band is normally....
1 drums
1 bass
2 guitar
2 keyboards
4 back up vox
2 main vox

But things change every week so their could be half that many or alot more. Sometimes theater like shows are held here also for kids and sermons. So some type of scene automation would make set up a breeze.

Now here's the kicker... The FOH booth is real small. The Soundtracs 40*8 just fits in their and it's a pretty narrow console for a 40*8.

I'm thinking the budget is around 20-30k so what first came in mind was a Allen and Heath ML4000 or ML5000 but then their is no way a 40ch model would fit in the booth. One thing I thing that would work GREAT is the yamaha PM5D because I could set all the channels for the different events and all the built in control but it's pretty high for are budget and I think I would have to be their at every event to run it because those other people would just be lost with it.

So what are some other ideas?
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Mac Kerr

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Re: What Consoles will fit?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2004, 05:49:24 pm »

Kurt wrote on Thu, 16 September 2004 17:26

snip
I'm thinking the budget is around 20-30k so what first came in mind was a Allen and Heath ML4000 or ML5000 but then their is no way a 40ch model would fit in the booth. One thing I thing that would work GREAT is the yamaha PM5D because I could set all the channels for the different events and all the built in control but it's pretty high for are budget and I think I would have to be their at every event to run it because those other people would just be lost with it.

So what are some other ideas?
The PM5D is a little out of a 20k-30k budget, but a DM2000 with 16 external preamps would fit into the lower end of it. It is a little harder to get around than a PM5D, but it is not that hard to learn. Shows that need less than 24 faders (mono channels or stereo on one fader) can be preset and labeled for ease of use. The DM2000 is also quite a bit smaller physically.

Mac Kerr
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Tony Grimwood

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Re: What Consoles will fit?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2004, 08:01:48 pm »

Hi Kurt,
You might be better off to get your old Soundtracs board to a competent tech. The problems you describe are mostly caused by oxidized pins on the ribbon cable connectors, which can easily be fixed with a drop of DeOxit on a cotton bud, or ring fracture solder failures. I've given new life to a lot of old consoles and have only rarely found problems that require component replacement (with the possible exception of faders). It would certainly be cheaper than spending 20 large or more on a new board.

Best o'luck,

Tony
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Quis custodiet ipsos custodies?

Kurt Rivers

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Re: What Consoles will fit?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2004, 12:55:27 pm »

I can see your pont on fixing it but this thing is well over 15 years old by the sounds of it. They have had it in the shpw and re done in the past. It's pretty tricky having all these diffrent kinds of shows every week having to re-setup everything 2-3 times a week. Right now their's only 4 mon sends. I really think that they cound use more. I think their are extra amps to rig up. Every channel on the mon's are running 2 EV elimator mons or yamaha mons (10" w/ horn I think). Here's what I'm thinking.
1 Drum mon
2 bass/guitars
3 keys
4 back-up vox
5 main vox
6-7 stereo/mono headphone line for drummer also
8 FX1
9 FX2
10-11 tape send(the mix need to be diffrent then the main mix)
(I'm just numbering the auxes I would use a diffrent order)

That would be an ideal monitor send set up. I know this is pretty crazy for the FOH to handle but I dont think they will go for a monitor console. Their will be 2 people running the console if needed.

Here's a picture to give you an idea. It's blurry but you can still see. I think its around 60" wide.index.php/fa/516/0/
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Mac Kerr

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Re: What Consoles will fit?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2004, 01:18:02 pm »

If your monitor requirements are such that you do a lot of active mixing on the monitors, a single digital console like a DM2000 to serve as both FOH and monitor console is not going to work very well for you. If the mons get set during soundcheck, and then left alone the DM2000 would be great with it's 12 aux sends. The different PA and recording mixes could probably better be done with matrix mixes. If you do need a lot of monitor mixing, you could add a DM1000 as well and have 8 mixes for mons without touching the DM2000. This is still within you budget. You would need to add a splitter unless you could live with the mons being post FOH gain trim (which they are when you mix mons from the FOH console anyway). To do that you would use digital I/O cards in each console to route directs outs to the monitor console. This also gets you all the eq, gates, comps you would ever want for the mons, with separate versions for FOH.

A PM5D in addition to being alittle above your budget is about 64" wide, if your space is 60" it won't quite fit.

Mac
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Kurt Rivers

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Re: What Consoles will fit?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2004, 02:20:34 pm »

Mac Kerr wrote on Sat, 18 September 2004 02:18


A PM5D in addition to being alittle above your budget is about 64" wide, if your space is 60" it won't quite fit.

Mac



Hmmmm...Well I get get another 8 inches or so by moving the video screen controller around. I'm making a perposal with all the diffrent ideas and concepts now to give them an idea.




Would it be pointless(money wise) to try to find some where to lease a PM5D for 9 to 12 months? I'm thinking it would cost ALOT. I think we are getting the console from the main church section when they have a new building in about a year.

Do you think soundpro.com would Finance a PM5D?
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Russ W

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Re: What Consoles will fit?
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2004, 06:21:42 pm »

Kurt,

     We run a DM200 at my church and use it for both FOH and monitors. The usual setup for us is from one to four vocals, one to three guitars, one or two keys, bass (direct and mic) and six drum channels. The 12 aux sends are plenty for us to cover all monitor needs and effects. We also have an Aviom system but no one likes to use it but the drummer.

      I think the concern you have about the learning curve of the board is valid. If you have several people who are used to running live sound and know their way around a normal board it's not that bad as long as they are willing to put in the effort to learn the layout. For people that have little background the board can be very  confusing. Just my $.02

Later,
       Russ

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Kurt Rivers

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Re: What Consoles will fit?
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2004, 09:16:09 pm »

If the DM2000 has 12 aux send where are they?

http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2001/DM2000-rear-large.j pg

I don't see 12 sends.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: What Consoles will fit?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2004, 11:03:12 pm »

If you look at that back panel you will also not see 96 input connectors. That does not mean that it is not a 96 input console. In it's base configuration the console has 24 mic pre's, 2 stereo line ins, and 3 stereo digital in. All of which can be softpatched to any input contol channel. There are 2 sets of control room outs on XLR, 1 stereo main out on XLR, and 8 omni outs on TRS that can be patched to whatever you want. To expand the console beyond this you add cards in the 6 expansion card slots. Cards are available with 8 analog line in, 8 analog line out, 8 digital in and out, and 16 digital in and out. The digital I/O can be used with the AD8HR 8 channel remote control preamp that lets you use the encoders on the console to adjust the mic pre. Since the digital I/O is available as AES, TDIF, or ADAT formats, it can also be used with the Behringer ADA8000 8 channel mic pre that also has 8 channels of line level out. Fully loaded the console can address 142 inputs, and 128 outputs, although there are only 96 input control channels, and 8 groups, 12 auxes, 4 stereo matixes, 1 stereo main fader.

The DM2000 definitely has 12 auxes. Since it has fader flip, and 12 aux selection buttons it is great for monitors as you can mix each send on the faders, and just push 1 button to select between mixes. The motorized faders will move right to the newly selected mix. If you hit the mix selection button twice it will solo that mix in the CR output to feed your cue wedge.

Mac Kerr
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