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Author Topic: Starting band out on PEMs  (Read 2145 times)

lbcBD

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Starting band out on PEMs
« on: August 22, 2004, 10:49:55 am »

I am working with a new band and the lead singer is having problems hearing him self. I think he is a little deaf. I get the monitors "peal your face off loud" and he still can't hear it (it's not that bad) but I want to move him to PEMs. Any recomendations for a setup?
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Tom Reid

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Re: Starting band out on PEMs
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2004, 12:01:18 pm »

I know nothing about IEMs other then what I've read.

It's been my experience some singers can not and will not ever be able to hear themselves.  In these cases, implants won't help.  They'll just empty your pocket.
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Brian Miller

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Re: Starting band out on PEMs
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2004, 01:08:41 pm »

Any difficulties I've had like this in the past have ended up being a frequency problem not a volume problem. I'd change his monitor's EQ if possible and see where that gets you. Also check if there is an instrument with very simular frequecy overlap in his monitor.
Good luck!
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Lee Patzius

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Re: Starting band out on PEMs
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2004, 01:42:10 pm »

IEM's are tremendously killer at blocking out the unwanted mix of all those blasting stage volume sources.

The singer can't hear himself through his bones. Notice how many live singers (without IEM's) need to put a finger over their ears?

You may need to mix mainly aux fed vocals-only into his ears...This is a direct connect, with maximum SPL reduction, minimal source bleed from the stage. Just like foam earplugs, but with a very high fidelity speaker cutting through, AND...At a very comfortable low volume. (Or very high volume too, if you want.)

I use IEM's, but I use a homebrew setup consisting of the Shure E2's earpiece, that sounds VERY good and loud. But I skimped and bought a $50.00 Jensen analog tuned stereo transmitter/receiver pair with body pack Best Buy. Been doing this for over a year or so. It's OK for us for now. I don't move around much sitting on my drum throne. Transmitter/receiver pair is usually within 5 feet, with broadband (wide tolerance) tuning, but I've used it reliably for 20 to 30 feet, where as tuning gets more critical.

Problem is, If anyone else in our band wants to use IEM's, which they DO now...Then we MUST empty our pockets and get a killer state-of-the-art multi-channel system.

The only thing we'd consider for multi-channel use is the Shure PSM systems. ONLY because of their price range, "name", and availability. It is easily obtainable at many MI stores. Still very expensive though.

Happy searching. Lots to choose from.

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Lee Patzius

 

Mac Kerr

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Re: Starting band out on PEMs
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2004, 04:41:30 pm »

lee patzius wrote on Sun, 22 August 2004 13:42

snip
I use IEM's, but I use a homebrew setup consisting of the Shure E2's earpiece, that sounds VERY good and loud. But I skimped and bought a $50.00 Jensen analog tuned stereo transmitter/receiver pair with body pack Best Buy. Been doing this for over a year or so. It's OK for us for now. I don't move around much sitting on my drum throne. Transmitter/receiver pair is usually within 5 feet, with broadband (wide tolerance) tuning, but I've used it reliably for 20 to 30 feet, where as tuning gets more critical.
snip
So Lee, as a drummer you need your IEM's to be wireless??? You will get better dynamics, and almost certainly better frequency response, by going wired instead of your Best Buy rig. You can probably get away with driving the E2's right off the monitor console at line level, or you can get a headphone amp and get a little more volume and a level control. There are systems that have a small belt pack driven by a single XLR, making it easy for you to unplug if you have to run around the stage. Or you can use a long enough cable.

Mac Kerr
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Lee Patzius

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Re: Starting band out on PEMs
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2004, 08:48:46 pm »

Mac Kerr wrote on Sun, 22 August 2004 15:41



So Lee, as a drummer you need your IEM's to be wireless??? You will get better dynamics, and almost certainly better frequency response, by going wired instead of your Best Buy rig.


Hi Mac,

Good point, the Jensen system is weaker in electronically reproducing sub freq's, but with my extreme close proximity to the kick and backline, SPL bleed-through past the foam sleeves makes up the loss pretty well.

A wired system would be OK, but I like the freedom of walking up to the console wireless, searching for a couple of aux sends, stereo taps, or even mono mix outputs, anything! I'll even settle for a PFL headphone output, whatever's available for that night. It's never the same lately...In-house systems, shared systems, our system, etc. IEM sends are really hard to come by on other people's setups. It also gives me a chance to zero in my tuner from a distance, dail-up strong send levels before clip, and sound check directly with the soundman.

If I went direct connect, a headphone amp with the following would be a minimum requirement: 1) Bright clip light. 2) Input level select. 3) Output volume control. (I already have these options on my wireless system.)

Shure offers output level compression for safety. That's a great idea...I don't have that, and I've popped my ears quite a few times actually, mainly during the power-up "POP", followed by off frequency "static", cranked.  Shocked

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Lee Patzius

 

Mike Sveda

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Re: Starting band out on PEMs
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2004, 12:51:05 pm »

Look at the Shure PSM200.  You can go wired or wireless with the bodypack. Pass over the Nady.

lbcBD

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Re: Starting band out on PEMs
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2004, 07:26:33 am »

Thanks for the replys. I guess what I am looking for is, is there a way to try before you buy to see if they will work. I understand you would probably would have to buy the ear buds but do people rent the rx/tx?
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Starting band out on PEMs
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2004, 09:53:18 am »

lbcBD wrote on Tue, 24 August 2004 07:26

Thanks for the replys. I guess what I am looking for is, is there a way to try before you buy to see if they will work. I understand you would probably would have to buy the ear buds but do people rent the rx/tx?
Absolutely. You don't say where you are located so it is hard to recommend a vendor, but lots of sound shops rent IEM systems. That's how tours work. Major tours are almost 100% rented, the artist might own some specialized gear, but most is rented. IEM's are part of that. Most concert sound companies, and there are companies all over the country, should be able to set you up with whatever you need in the way of personal monitoring. The cost of the removable foam seals on the earpieces are usually included in the rental price.

Mac Kerr
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bo putnam

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Re: Starting band out on PEMs
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2004, 02:26:54 pm »

lbcBD wrote on Sun, 22 August 2004 07:49

Any recomendations for a setup?

Yea.  Not a plug, but when I'm singing and not at FOH (two different bands...) I use the Shure PSM600 (wireless) and E5 buds.  Been there for going-on five years.  Never going back.  Intonation much improved, and the use has stopped me straining my voice (over singing to hear myself) - can gig serial nights without problems and with better results.  

Shure lately introduced the Triple Flange Ear Sleeves - which are for me the best solution to ear-canal discomfort and greater isolation.  I trim the very smallest flange off, for my fit.

ISOLATION: However, this is a real issue - the singer will no longer be able to hear anything going on, on-stage.  Period.  Since my band has now all gone in-ear, we put an "ambient" mic on-stage and bleed it into the monitor mixes so we can talk to each other on stage.  Goofy?  You bet.  Next we're gonna add an "audience" mic same-same.  We have no clue what they are saying anymore, even though we sound better than ever...
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