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Author Topic: 2 15 with 2 inch horn or quasi three way  (Read 7088 times)

Marjan Milosevic

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Re: 2 15 with 2 inch horn or quasi three way
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2004, 07:32:36 am »

If I were You I would stay with curent crossover point of 1800Hz.
Lowering this, will result in lower power handling of the 2" driver and greater heat dissipation and can also make the driver sounding too harsh.

I would realy drive it full range as they are.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards

yam4000vca Jim Gould

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Re: 2 15 with 2 inch horn or quasi three way
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2004, 08:54:12 am »

I am not sure if you are aware but Peavey has systems that have in the past been set up to run the ancestors of this very driver crossed over as low as 600hz. This is an improved version with ferro fluid and I can expect it would easily handle being crossed over at 1200hz with no problem at all in real world useage.
What it sounds like of course is a matter of taste and how much eq you may need to put on it to make it sound the way you want.
Over the years when configuring many systems,Peavey among them, I have never taken 15s up to 1800hz. I have done it with 12s and 10s even higher.
Another point I would like to make is that I am of the school of thought that these are 1in drivers.
The orginal post was asking about rewiring it and that is what I spoke to. I also think it may be better off run as designed possibly but I suggested a way to set it up with out tampering with the way it was designed.
If the person does that they try running the top box biamped   and use thier ears and decide if it is better for them.
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Dave Rickard

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Re: 2 15 with 2 inch horn or quasi three way
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2004, 09:33:06 am »

It's their 4inch VC driver on a 2inch exit horn.  

I've seen Peavey cross these at 800Hz in another cabinet and I thought they sounded fine.  They rated the cabinet @ 450w RMS.
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Dave
Yorkville dealer

"The wrong piece of gear, at the right price, is still the wrong piece of gear."

"If you don't have good stuff at each end of the signal chain, (mics and speakers) what you use in between is just turd polish."--Dave Dermont

Dave Rickard

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Re: 2 15 with 2 inch horn or quasi three way
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2004, 09:49:48 am »

I agree with Mac.  

You have not yet heard what your system can do.  Therefore, don't rewire, *yet*.  Run full range (or 40Hz HP) to the 4215's and only LP filter to your subs around 80-100Hz.  I assume you are unhappy with your bass power capability.  This may shock you with what you've been missing...

You described low passing the 4215's at 150Hz (I assume 24db/oct.), and then the internal inductor high passes that second woofer @ 200Hz (6db/oct), effectively *reducing* the cabinet to a single 15 design.  The band pass on the woofer is from 150-200Hz!

If you are set on modifying, partsexpress.com can supply your parts.  But if I were you, I would want to know what I had on my hands first.

daver
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Dave
Yorkville dealer

"The wrong piece of gear, at the right price, is still the wrong piece of gear."

"If you don't have good stuff at each end of the signal chain, (mics and speakers) what you use in between is just turd polish."--Dave Dermont

yam4000vca Jim Gould

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Re: 2 15 with 2 inch horn or quasi three way
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2004, 09:57:44 am »

I will admit a mistake. I went to Peavey web site to try and confirm what these dth cabinets were about but seems they are not there. At least I could not find them.
I did have first hand experience with a different 2x15 horn Peavey cabinet that ran quasi 3 way. This had the smaller driver on the high end.
Sorry for any mis-information
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brad smith

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Re: 2 15 with 2 inch horn or quasi three way
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2004, 11:55:51 am »

You can find the cabinet specs on the peavey site. Go to support and search for manuals. It's the DTH 4215, it comes up in pdf format. All the help is GREATLY appreciated. Stupid ????. How do you high pass at 40hz the tops
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Dave Dermont

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Re: 2 15 with 2 inch horn or quasi three way
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2004, 12:44:42 pm »

First of all, the inductor on the bottom woofer is a LOW PASS FILTER and is used to take excess midrange frequencies out of the lower 15" driver.

Taking the inductor away might be a good idea if you're using the TDM active crossover. I also might give you a huge couple-three octave wide hump centered around 300Hz-400Hz or so. If the hump is not too big, you can use the TDM's mid level and the FOH EQ to get it under control.  

Check to see if the 15" drivers are the same model too. The driver with the inductor may be different, as it's not intended to go up as high as the other 15" in the cabinet.

As you can see, making changes like these can open up many different cans of worms. I like to leave speaker designing to speaker designers.

Many old-timers hate passive components on their drivers because it eats up amp power to some extent. This is a throwback to the old days when "big" amps delivered 350 watts or so per side, and guys were trying to squeeze every last dB they could.

Now a days, a passive box and a big honkin' amp can sound really good, AND be loud too.

What you want to do may improve your rig, but it could turn it into an expensive pile of firewood too. Document the changes you make, and keep your passive crossovers around so you can change things back it you need to. Do it when you have lots of time to tweak and listen. Don't do it at a gig.

Another idea is to get another GPS3500. Use it along with the one you have for subs, and move the 2600's to mids. The one 1500 should still be enough for highs. This, of course, is a more expensive solution.

Keep us posted as to your progress
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Dave Rickard

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Re: 2 15 with 2 inch horn or quasi three way
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2004, 03:36:28 pm »

bsmith wrote on Thu, 26 August 2004 16:55

How do you high pass at 40hz the tops

I don't think the TDM crossover can do that.  Just run your 4215's full range, and use the crossover to LP your subs around 80-100Hz.

Let us know what you find out.

daver
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Dave
Yorkville dealer

"The wrong piece of gear, at the right price, is still the wrong piece of gear."

"If you don't have good stuff at each end of the signal chain, (mics and speakers) what you use in between is just turd polish."--Dave Dermont

Ronnie Blenden

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Re: 2 15 with 2 inch horn or quasi three way
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2004, 06:29:37 pm »

O.K.  I have been involved in the usage and sales of many peavey products.  All their 2x15 cabs are wired quasi three way.  Most people buy a sub to throw under it when the bottom is not enough.   When using a three way crossover and setting the low(or sub) crossover point around 100-150 then you are basically eliminating the bottm 15 in the cabinet and replacing it with the sub speaker. In quasi three way both 15" speakers get the low frequency bass.  The upper one gets mids and bass with the lower one crossed over somewhere in the 150-250 range.  You do not get the impression of added bass when simply adding a sub and using a three way crossover.  You will get your best results by far by doing one of two things.  Either get rid of your crossover and get something like a BBE Sonic Maximizer with a sub out or rip all the guts out of the DTH and rewire the two 15" together for a dual mid situation.  The BBE (or comparable) works really good if you are just the weekend warrior.  You can run stereo full range in from the mixer, full range out to the amp or amps for the dth's and then use the sub out which has a separate gain control to send to a sub amp then on to your sub cabinets.  You simply set up the PA with the sub control turned down.  Get the volume level and sound you like and then turn the sub gain control up until you get the amount of thump you want.  Very, Very, simple.  No worrying about crossover frequencies.  You will cause no harm though if you decide to do away with the internal crossover and wire the 15's together.  If you order JBL's set up for tri amp usage from the factory that is how they are done.  No crossover, just a panel with two nuetrik 8 conductors for mid, high, and a sub passthrough so you can send one 8 conductor cable for each stack.  Hope this is what you were looking for.
Of course, by ripping out the passive crossover you will be violating the warranty on the cabinets.  In that case you might want to build another panel so that way you can keep all the guts and put them back in stock if you need to.  Razz
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Dave Dermont

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Re: 2 15 with 2 inch horn or quasi three way
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2004, 10:14:43 am »

captainjack wrote on Thu, 26 August 2004 17:29

  You will get your best results by far by doing one of two things.  Either get rid of your crossover and get something like a BBE Sonic Maximizer with a sub out or rip all the guts out of the DTH and rewire the two 15" together for a dual mid situation.  The BBE (or comparable) works really good if you are just the weekend warrior.  You can run stereo full range in from the mixer, full range out to the amp or amps for the dth's and then use the sub out which has a separate gain control to send to a sub amp then on to your sub cabinets.  You simply set up the PA with the sub control turned down.  Get the volume level and sound you like and then turn the sub gain control up until you get the amount of thump you want.  Very, Very, simple.  


Yes, very very simple, and also very very ghetto.

The TDM analog crossover, a relativly low-cost piece of pro gear, and a regional sound reinforcement workhorse, offers near legendary performance.

At best, the Sonic Maximizer is a marginal piece of audio snake oil, and a BIG step backwards from the TDM.
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