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Author Topic: Burning Voice coils, what the heck is going wrong???  (Read 14176 times)

Vince Byrne

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Re: Given the range and frequency of problems
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2004, 01:25:04 pm »

Mark Seaton wrote on Thu, 02 September 2004 12:00

Remember that of course I am biased and would tell most to build up some LABs and save the rest of their pennies for our SPL-td2 rather than new drivers.  Rolling Eyes

Cheers,


td2? Come, on fork over ... Cool

Peace,
Vince <><
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Mark Seaton

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Re: Given the range and frequency of problems
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2004, 11:25:09 am »

Vince wrote on Thu, 02 September 2004 12:25

Mark Seaton wrote on Thu, 02 September 2004 12:00

Remember that of course I am biased and would tell most to build up some LABs and save the rest of their pennies for our SPL-td2 rather than new drivers.  Rolling Eyes

Cheers,


td2? Come, on fork over ... Cool

Peace,
Vince <><


Um... Typo?   Embarassed

Keep an eye on our forum for any updates.
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Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." - Daniel H. Burnham

Steve Shafer

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TC sound driver continued
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2004, 04:41:52 pm »

Mark et al:

The idea for looking for a more robust and higher performance driver came to me after reading Tako Thomas's post about the modifications that he has made to his drivers and the number of recones he has had to have done. His subs look as well made and thought out as any that i have seen on this forum. In addition, he seems like he has used his gear in a very reasonable and appropriate manner.

While I am just a novice at best, i think having a larger voice coil and or a better way of managing heat build up in the drivers in the Lab sub could help with driver longevity.  I have considered something similar to what Community has done with actually venting the drivers via ducts and hoses to the outside of the cabinet. Perhaps heat build up is not the major concern?

After exchanging informaiton with the folks at TC sound, I am confident that they could make a driver with significantly more total x-max and even get above the 18-24 mm mark quite easliy.  They make a 12" driver with a total of 3" total x-max.

Making the TC drivers fit may prove to be a different matter entirely.  Let alone getting enough orders to have TC tool up for a run of drivers.

Granted the TC sound drivers would not be cheap.  I am going to step out on a limb here, but the drivers seem to be the weakest link in most speaker designs.  If spending an extra $400.00 dollars on drivers for the LAB sub would bump the "product" performance, ruggedness and longevity up to a higher level, then i think it is worth a try.  The eminence driver is very very reasonably priced!! However, i think the TC driver could take the Lab Sub closer to it's theoretical performance limits.

I am aware of Mr. Wayne Parham's efforts to get Eminence to build a new 12" driver for the Tom Danley Lab Sub based upon the Magnum motor structure with the inclusion of a shorting ring. From what i have heard the shorting ring will lower the distortion produced by the driver but most likely outside of the intended band width of use.

I see this as a learning process for me, and if others want to embark upon a refinement of the original, I think it will only give us better insight into the knowlege that Tom et al who designed the sub have gleaned over the years.

my .02

Steve S
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Tamas Tako

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Re: Burning Voice coils, what the heck is going wrong???
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2004, 02:04:11 pm »

Hi Steve,

I am very sorry when I was driving you into searching for the perfect driver for the LABsub cabinets...
I think as Mark wrote there are possibilities to build better driver for this cabinet, but for very high costs, when they wouldn't produced in hundred od thousand pieces...
What I wrote about dark sides of the LAB12 driver are just for our information and of course for informing the engineers at Eminence. They are very flexible guys and helps when any problem with the driver. (not to mention the long long guarantee)
After having the modified suspension sealing drivers I had no problem like before. But I had problem with the voice coil as I wrote, and I hope Eminence will take care and made some modifications on this as well.
I must say, that I use the LABs very hard on concerts 4-6 hours long, sometimes with many times working amp limiters...
I am happy with the LABs...

Thanks,

Tamas


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Michael_Elliston¶

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Re: Given the range and frequency of problems
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2004, 02:17:14 am »

Stevesb65 wrote on Thu, 02 September 2004 01:52


I realise that there are some real big league heavy hitters on this board, and that I am just a beginner.  However, I have approached the company that builds the NEOMAXX driver for bassmaxx.

http://www.tcsounds.com/TC9_12_2568.htm

Granted this driver is not exactly what Tom D spec'd, but i bet one of these base models could be modified to make one heck of a driver for the Lab Subs.

Steve S


That driver is more like the Peerles XLS with its ultra low Qts
If the Qts was more like the Lab12 it would probably function rather similarly
with an adjusted back chamber.
Im keen on trying shorting rings/xbl2
Cheers
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JR Rager

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Re: Given the range and frequency of problems
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2004, 08:41:19 am »

I dunno, if you model the lab 12 and the TC driver in MLUtil by lowering the Qts you actually raise the efficiency of the driver in the horn...this means you are transfering even more acoustical power from the driver to the horn. I did it about a year ago while I was looking for drivers for my dual 15" horn subs. TC is one of the supliers I considered, just min of 100 to get the price reasonable. Of course Nick at Lambda was willing to hook me up with what I needed as he "used" to build them in small runs to spec.

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[x]

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Re: Burning Voice coils, what the heck is going wrong???
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2004, 08:43:36 pm »

I know that Lambda's remaining parts inventory was bought within the last week by the proprietor of the former Stryke Audio, which is now called AE Speakers. He may be able to do short runs. He used to buy custom-made TC Sounds drivers and sell them to DIYers (I am very satisfied with mine) and now he is gearing up to produce drivers himself.
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Tom Herr

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Re: Burning Voice coils, what the heck is going wrong???
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2004, 03:41:17 pm »

I guess I must just be one of the lucky ones. I have been running my labhorns for about 18 months now with no problems. I have also built labhorns for several others and too my knowledge non of them have experienced driver failures. I do stress the importance of checking the access panels regularly and suggest  they give them a healthy 1800 watts min. I power mine with one RMX2450 bridged per labhorn. I don't clip them but they have had some pretty good workouts. I check my access panels regularly to insure that they are tight. The screws do back out from the vibration and constant pounding. It is not uncommon for them to back out a full turn over the coarse of a couple shows. I use a rubber weather strip for the seal around the access panels. It has 3 raised ribs and is 3/8 inch thick before tightening. All other joints are sealed with epoxy.

I am very happy with the lab12 from Eminence. I have to wonder if there are other issues with some of the failures we hear about. Maybe a bad seal, air leak around the wires, access plate recess is maybe too deep reducing the air flow the the driver vent, 1/16" too deep is too much. While some of the dimensions of the cabinet are very forgiving some are also very critical. All module dimensions are critical, as well as driver recess depth.
I am sure there are defective drivers out there just as there are with any production part. Just as I am sure there are  defective boxes. After all anyone can make a mistake, and everyone has a different idea of what is accurate.  While one guy measures with Calipers and holds within thousandths of an inch the next guy measures with a tape measure, and the next guy may say hey its just wood, anything within 1/8" or even 3/16's is close enough. Not to say that they are wrong, just a different perspective on what is accurate. One persons idea of an airtight joint may be one that is glued together because the glue will fill any gaps and seal the joint while another would seal all the joints with caulk, and the next might use a few coats of epoxy and test them with compressed air.
Not saying that the drivers in question are or are not defective. Just saying that out of all the driver failures we have heard about over the life of this project I would guess that at least 50% were most likely a result of something else, like improper filter settings, a loose access panel, air leaks, or other issues.
Eminence has been very supportive of their product and we should be greatful. After all they have no way of knowing how well each cabinet is built. What filter settings are used or how much power each driver is given. They just give us all the benefit of the doubt. You can't put a price on customer support but if you could Eminence would easily charge a surcharge for it.
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Tom Herr
T&J Sound
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Too Tall (Curtis H. List)

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Re: Burning Voice coils, what the heck is going wrong???
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2004, 12:09:13 pm »

Tom H. wrote on Thu, 30 September 2004 15:41



snip-

Just saying that out of all the driver failures we have heard about over the life of this project I would guess that at least 50% were most likely a result of something else, like improper filter settings, a loose access panel, air leaks, or other issues.
Eminence has been very supportive of their product and we should be greatful. After all they have no way of knowing how well each cabinet is built. What filter settings are used or how much power each driver is given. They just give us all the benefit of the doubt. You can't put a price on customer support but if you could Eminence would easily charge a surcharge for it.



What he said!!!
Too Tall
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Too Tall
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