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Author Topic: Lab12 Reliability - Ripped 4  (Read 9284 times)

Marikili Oswin

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Lab12 Reliability - Ripped 4
« on: July 08, 2004, 01:25:38 pm »

Guys,

I guess its time to discuss about the reliability factor of the Labsubs in the long run.

We got a pair of subs made in Nov 2003, added the second pair in June 2004.We did about 15 gigs with the first pair usually feeding it about 1200@4 Ohms.

Last weekend piled all four subs in the center and powered it with 2 Dynacord

Bogdan Popescu

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Re: Lab12 Reliability - Ripped 4
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2004, 01:54:06 pm »

Looks real bad.

Eminence people should take a look at it.
I feel like something was wrong, maybe not setup, could be just a bad impulse from the amp...

Good luck

PS: I am just finishing number 5&6 this week
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Marikili Oswin

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Re: Lab12 Reliability - Ripped 4
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2004, 02:21:52 pm »

Bogdan P. wrote on Thu, 08 July 2004 23:24

Looks real bad.

Eminence people should take a look at it.
I feel like something was wrong, maybe not setup, could be just a bad impulse from the amp...

Good luck

PS: I am just finishing number 5&6 this week



Bogdan, If it was an impluse from the amp why didnt it affect the new sub on the other channel. I had connect one old and one new sub on each amp.

Oswin

Tamas Tako

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Re: Lab12 Reliability - Ripped 4
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2004, 04:44:37 am »

Hi,

I had the same problem with 8 pcs of LAB12 speakers and many others too...
The problem is coused by the bad sealing between the cone and the suspension.
there are two versions of the LAB12 (g2).
the earlier versions didn't had glue on the back side between the cone and the suspension, while the newer version has...
You should contact EMINENCE with the photos attached and send the serial nr to them too. (the ser. nr. is on the magent below the rubber thing)
I 'v got from eminence all the new recone kits for my old version speakers for free in few days.
Please try to contact Jerry McNut at eminence.

all the best,

Tako Tamas

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David Shan

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Re: Lab12 Reliability - Ripped 4
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2004, 06:29:27 am »

Interesting Pics, I had 4x Kappa Pro in peavey DTH concert subs (we got the cabs unloaded) years ago all the edges cracked around the cone one by one.  

I put it down to not being able to withstand coming out the van in cold weather then being powered up. I also thought at first it was over excursion but we only put 1000w a side to them and nothing under 40hz with steep roll-of. To Be honest i never thought of eminence being all that reliable, but that was prob due to what happened with the concert subs. Have you guys considered what a lab sub would sound like if JBL/RCF etc were to make the special driver? My thoughts it would be tighter and more reliable?

Thanks
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Al Limberg

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Re: Lab12 Reliability - Ripped 4
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2004, 09:10:12 am »

It strikes me as rather simplistic to blame the speaker manufacturer when you load a speaker in a box it wasn't designed for (or vice versa).
I too have lost a total of 2 Lab 12s over the last 2 years (out of 16).  One was inspected by Eminence and determined to be a factory defect (voice coil shorted at the point where it crosses from one side to the other as it's a dual layer v.c.) and the other questioned as perhaps over-powered but still replaced under warranty.  I have, since the second occurence, made it  my own policy to check the tightness of all module lid screws prior to each gig and also to now replace the lid caulking-sealant each spring and fall.  The combination of the energy created by the cab itself and the constant riding in a truck are enough to let machine screws come loose.  Loose screws and caulk trying to maintain a seal against the cone motion of the Lab is a battle that takes constant attention.

Al  
p.s.  I have also raised the HPF on my DSP to 35Hz/24db/Oct when using less than 4 in a block.
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Marikili Oswin

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Re: Lab12 Reliability - Ripped 4
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2004, 10:01:00 am »

Al Limberg wrote on Fri, 09 July 2004 18:40

It strikes me as rather simplistic to blame the speaker manufacturer when you load a speaker in a box it wasn't designed for (or vice versa).
I too have lost a total of 2 Lab 12s over the last 2 years (out of 16).  One was inspected by Eminence and determined to be a factory defect (voice coil shorted at the point where it crosses from one side to the other as it's a dual layer v.c.) and the other questioned as perhaps over-powered but still replaced under warranty.  I have, since the second occurence, made it  my own policy to check the tightness of all module lid screws prior to each gig and also to now replace the lid caulking-sealant each spring and fall.  The combination of the energy created by the cab itself and the constant riding in a truck are enough to let machine screws come loose.  Loose screws and caulk trying to maintain a seal against the cone motion of the Lab is a battle that takes constant attention.

Al  
p.s.  I have also raised the HPF on my DSP to 35Hz/24db/Oct when using less than 4 in a block.



Al

I guess you haven't read the post carefully. Here we are talking about the Lab12 in their own box it was designed for and driven as they  ment to be. This problem is faced with quite a few of the lab owners and we are trying to solve it. This problem is with the speaker or the box and I dont think it is with the screws and sealant.If you notice all the speakers show the same level of damage.

Is Eminence stepping in here??

OZ

Too Tall (Curtis H. List)

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Re: Lab12 Reliability - Ripped 4
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2004, 10:52:51 am »

Shane Gosling wrote on Fri, 09 July 2004 06:29

Interesting Pics, I had 4x Kappa Pro in peavey DTH concert subs (we got the cabs unloaded) years ago all the edges cracked around the cone one by one.  

I put it down to not being able to withstand coming out the van in cold weather then being powered up. I also thought at first it was over excursion but we only put 1000w a side to them and nothing under 40hz with steep roll-of. To Be honest i never thought of eminence being all that reliable, but that was prob due to what happened with the concert subs. Have you guys considered what a lab sub would sound like if JBL/RCF etc were to make the special driver? My thoughts it would be tighter and more reliable?

Thanks


In general I have to disagree.
Eminence has a "cheap" reputation from selling people millions of inexpensive drivers over the years. It does not mean they can't build as good a driver as anyone else.
   As to failure rates ALL the speaker manufacturers go through this. If I remember correctly the  "K" series for JBL was fragile. They sounded wonderful for the 2 minutes they worked and then self-destructed. Beyond that line they have had factory defect based failures in other lines.
   EV has gone through the same thing. I never kept track of RCF, but I would bet the same.
   There is nothing wrong with EV or JBL. This is something that happens when you make a large number of anything.
   The key is if they stand behind it and change the product if there is an inherent flaw.
   As for the statement that a JBL or RCF would sound "tighter" that is obvious brand loyalty with no basis in fact. They can only sound "tighter" if you find a better set of T/S values to put in the box that Tom Danley designed and good luck on that.

   All that being said there we should keep Eminence's feet to the fire on any factory defects.
   We should continue to communicate on any failures.
   And lastly we need to keep in mind that this design is NOT bullet-proof or magic and that we will break it on a regular basis if we don't learn its limits.
   These boxes are like a lot of other good sounding boxes. You can push them into dangerous output and they still sound good. It makes it impossible to tell by ear how much they can take.
Too Tall

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Mark Seaton

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Re: Lab12 Reliability - Ripped 4
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2004, 01:11:36 pm »

Oz wrote on Fri, 09 July 2004 09:01


Is Eminence stepping in here??

OZ



It appears this is an adhesive issue like Tako mentioned.  Eminence was closed for annual inventory, but they should be back in the office next week(I think).  Contact them and determine what the problem was, and include the serial numbers of the drivers.  Being that it was the older pair that failed, there is certainly a good possibility those older drivers might have been prone to the failure sooner.  You will have to talk to Eminence to find out.

I know that on our related, but different 12" used in a few of our products, including the B-DEAP-32, the large majority of any failures have come from gross over-excursion (at multiples intended/rated drive levels).  While the power applied was very high, coil burn has been quite rare.  Overall our drivers have been very reliable within intended useage.  
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Al Limberg

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Re: Lab12 Reliability - Ripped 4
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2004, 02:26:49 pm »

Sorry you missed that my post was obviously in response to Shane's post about using Emminence drivers in Peavey cabinets.
Al
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