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Author Topic: still wondering  (Read 20211 times)

David

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still wondering
« on: June 08, 2004, 07:09:11 pm »

Any news on the 10" (Eminence HL10) sub?index.php/fa/162/0/
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Graeme Goodacre [Centauri

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Re: still wondering
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2004, 07:47:36 am »

I tried to do a simulation with this driver ages ago, and it doesn't appear to be a good candidate for a horn sub - seems to want a very small throat and large rear chamber. I think this speaker is much more suited to a front-loaded box.

Cheers
Graeme
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David

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Re: still wondering
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2004, 04:38:10 pm »

For the cost it seems like it could be favorable for a small sealed powered sub.  I was under the impression by Parts Express that it was a cousin to the LAB 12 and would be later implemented into a similar front-loaded compression chamber folded-horn.  Does Mr. Danley have a hand in this driver?

So many prefixes.
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John Sheerin

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Re: still wondering
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2004, 02:29:45 pm »

Hello,
I hope this is not considered advertising, but anyway...

I designed a horn around a pair of very cheap MCM woofers about two years ago.  MCM discontinued the woofer right after a buddy finished building the horn, and Jerry McNutt offered to take a look at issuing something similar, sort of as a Lab10, but obviously it can't be called a Lab10 because the LAB was not involved.  I redid my original horn for a slightly different (better) set of woofer specs, and that's where the HL10 came from.  I finally got the horn built a few months ago and am about done testing it.  We're (Eminence) planning on putting the plans on our website.  This horn is fairly big (4'x4'x18.5") and is designed to go in large home theaters.  I also came up with a smaller design (30"x30"x13.5") that uses one HL10 and can be used ala the LAB sub.  A stack of 4 outside looks good, while a stack of 16 would be smokin'.  I am working on getting this one built and tested.

As far as modeling up horns for it on your own, I would look at very small rear chambers, not large ones, and medium to small throats / front chambers.  I have also used 4 of them in a vented box for bass guitar.  It's 24"x24"x15" and uses two square ports 4" on a side and 28" long that run along the top and bottom back corners of box, venting out the sides.  This gives it an EBS style tuning at 30hz.

John
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David

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Re: still wondering
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2004, 10:37:15 pm »

Very very cool.  Please let me know how this all works out.  I would love to build up some decent folded horn subs using only one driver per horn (I'm on a tight working budget for speakers right now).

Could you please email me (afxdave@yahoo.com) because I would like to know more about the Eminence 8" coaxials and woofers for some monitors along with updates on the HL10.
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Dave Rickard

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Re: Me too.
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2004, 05:22:23 pm »

John,

I also wondered, as I'm sure many others have, how the HL10 would work out in a horn and if designs would be made available.

The obvious question would be how much performance would be lost, versus size reduction, as compared to the LAB12.  The comparisons are inevitable.  

I know anyone who undertakes these things is taking on a huge project (again?), but many might benefit from that effort.  

Please keep us posted.

daver

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Dave
Yorkville dealer

"The wrong piece of gear, at the right price, is still the wrong piece of gear."

"If you don't have good stuff at each end of the signal chain, (mics and speakers) what you use in between is just turd polish."--Dave Dermont

John Sheerin

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Re: Me too.
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2004, 09:56:05 am »

index.php/fa/199/0/

Well, if you compare simulations (see attached graph), and compare 1 Lab horn in half space and 4 of these smaller HL10 horns in half space (about 2.7 cubic feet larger for the HL10's) both driven to xmax on the low end, the HL10 horns have 1-2dB more output above 45hz and should have smoother response to a higher frequency.  Between about 27hz and 45hz, the Lab horn has more output.  The 4x HL10 horns will probably cost a bit more due to using 4 drivers instead of 2 in the Lab horn.  Each HL10 horn uses 1.5 4'x8' sheets of 3/4" ply - I forget how many a Lab horn uses offhand, but I imagine you could find out and make that comparison.  Basically, the HL10 horn does not go as low, but individual units are smaller and should go higher in frequency and output with smoother response for a comparable cabinet volume.

As I see it, if I wanted to go low, the Lab horn would be my choice (although probably with a rear chamber modification to get the correct size ala Brad Litz's design).  If my plan was to only use the Lab horn above 40hz to get 6dB more output before xmax, then I would go with the 4x HL10 horns and have boxes that are easier to move around and a bit more sensitive.

John
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Dave Rickard

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Re: Me too.
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2004, 10:52:48 am »

Thanks, John.  

May I ask more questions?  I think these will come up time and again so I'll be the inquisitive ignoramus who goes first.  (I am aware that you don't get something for nothing in speaker designs, and that speculation is involved here.)

Is each HL10 is loaded in it's own horn?  i.e. 4 horns for four drivers?

Based on your data above, would two HL10's be roughly equivalent in SPL to one LAB horn, with the obvious tradeoff of low end extension, but at half the size?  

Will the lack of horn coupling would reduce the output of two even further?

Another typical question would be "What can I expect if I use just one?"  Not that I will, but that question will be asked.

Thanks in advance,
daver
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Dave
Yorkville dealer

"The wrong piece of gear, at the right price, is still the wrong piece of gear."

"If you don't have good stuff at each end of the signal chain, (mics and speakers) what you use in between is just turd polish."--Dave Dermont

John Sheerin

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Re: Me too.
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2004, 01:06:19 pm »

>Is each HL10 is loaded in it's own horn?  i.e. 4 horns for four drivers?

Correct.

>Based on your data above, would two HL10's be roughly equivalent in SPL to one LAB horn, with the obvious tradeoff of low end extension, but at half the size?  

See attached image of this scenario:
index.php/fa/203/0/
So basically yes - the 2x HL10's should be about 1dB lower in output above 45hz compared to 1 LAB horn for the same power input.  The HL10's can take a bit more power to reach Xmax, though, so the output should be about the same above 45hz.


>"What can I expect if I use just one?"

As with two horns, you will need eq to get flat response, but at least the response should be fairly smooth, so possible to eq.  See the next message for a plot.  Note that the single cabinet would be -3dB from what's shown.  I just plotted at the same power level so you could see how the response changes.

John
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John Sheerin

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Re: Me too.
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2004, 01:08:35 pm »

Here's one HL10 cabinet vs. two cabinets.  Note that these are all in half space.  If used indoors against a wall, you could cut the number of cabinets in half for the same response.
index.php/fa/204/0/

John
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