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[Too Tall (Curtis H. List)]

John Sheerin wrote on Wed, 26 May 2004 09:23

Hi Dan, I would also add that it is perfectly possible to bottom out the speakers or otherwise tear them up - just run a single box in half space at 33hz with more than 1400 watts (64V) and you should be well on your way to needing recone kits! John

Hi John,
Something we need to keep in mind is that compared to the typical front-loaded system this is much more complicated.
First and foremost we have a modular system where the safe operating limits change depending on how many and how they are stacked and located.
   Next we have a DIY product where the majority of the boxes in use are being used in stacks of one or two instead of the four it was designed for.
   Lastly the sneaky little bastards sound good as single boxes

[Chris Hindle]

:Can anyone please explain to me the whys and how-comes of this?
also does it keep going the more speakers you add(Can you keep lowering the HPF with every speaker added)?

In a nutshell, with horn loaded subs, the more horns you put beside each other, the bigger the mouth gets. Bigger mouth supports lower frequencies.

The lowest note that the horn itself would support once you get 10 or 12 boxes together is <probably> lower than what each individual driver can take, so there is the law of diminishing returns to deal with, so don't throw out the HPF and sharp slope ! If you take the signal below where the box un-loads, it will get real quiet, real fast at the kind of power being thrown around these days.

On the old-standard W bins, 1 was useless. 2 was not much better. 3 worked, 4 was a bit better. 6 or more would flap the old pants legs.  This was before subs.

Chris.

[danfowler]

At this particular club I'm "forced" (if I want to use the house snake) to mix in a "crow's nest" sort of thing elevated above the crowd and beside the DJ. There is no where to run my snake easily at this place, it's all circulation around the dance floor. I'd have to hang it and there's ton's of DJ lights in the ceiling.

It takes a while getting used to hearing the band out of context (all high end, the crow's nest is a bass nulifier)and I power the crap out of my boxes. Always have, probably always will. I lose fewer drivers to overpowering than to clipping. This is my first Lab 12" failure. Not bad for a 15 month run.

When I walked the floor at the beginning of the fist set it was readily apparent I had too much low end going. I was working on the kick and that Midas EQ is quick off center. I heard it slap, but it has slapped before without damage. Not this time.

I suppose I couldn't hear the magnitude of the slap at this club. Luckily, I shut it down before the other 12" got hurt.

The GOOD NEWS is LoudspeakersPlus got me a recone kit for about $40.00. Thanks guys. I had it reconed in under an hour and I'm back in the game. I could almost throw a kit, some CA and accelerator, and a scraper in my Tech box for field repair. But I'll just carry a spare driver instead. I have to say that using speaker clamps instead of TEE nuts/machine screws helps in changing out drivers. See pic.

I'm gonna set the limiter to let the amp just swing 50 volts and get a preset loaded on the 260 titled "1Lab/side".

Hope I've passed along some useful info to every one.
Thanks to everybody who posted. I love this place.

Slam on!
Dan o:)

[Rick]

Do those clamps really hold the driver in securly?

[danfowler]

Hi Rick,

They hold very well. Some of the not-so-obvious reasons are:

They are the HD 1/4" thick Penn Fab versions

They've been countersunk to match the screw heads

The screw is 1/4"-20 and is 18.8 stainless (and non-magnetic)

The baffle board is VERY tight fitting to the driver frame so the speaker clamps just push the driver into that 1/2" recess.

You have to position the driver so the clamp lines up with a frame rib so it's grabbing the strongest part of the lip.

No problems so far. Very fast replacement. I have nightmares about pushed out or stripped 10-24 tee nuts; just as I'm putting the last one back in place................ AuygH @#$%^&*!
Sorry about the pics guys, I tried down sizing that thing before I uploaded it but I didn't hit some key I needed to.

Dan O:)

[danfowler]

UPDATE

Got the kit in from LoudspeakersPlus.
With the frame scraped and already cleaned it took less than a 1/2 hour to recone the LAB12 GII save for the latex adhered parts.

I used Loctite 380 on the spider to coil, spider to frame, coil to cone and surround to frame attachments. Insta-set accelerator moves that along fast. The stuff REALLY stinks so ventilate well.

Regular latex speaker glue was used to attach the cork gasket to the surround lip, and bond the 2 inverted dust domes to the cone. The latex has to set up overnight to cure but about 1/2 an hour's work on the critical parts. FYI fellas.

Pretty easy to recone. The lead wires are crimped in the push post antennas so they're completely reuseable. No solder required. The most expensive part was the Loctite 380. I thought the kit itself was quite reasonable. Come to think of it, very little 380 was used so I guess it's not so bad. You can probably recone a dozen Labs from a single 1 oz. bottle.

When you order the kits, go ahead and buy 2 of them since shipping was about 25% of the cost of a single kit!

Later,
Dan o:)