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Author Topic: LAB Sub sounds great  (Read 10440 times)

Rick

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LAB Sub sounds great
« on: May 02, 2004, 09:26:47 pm »

Hi all, Im currently working on a music festival in New Zealand.
We are building our sound system from the ground up.  

Currently I had planned to use 48 Dual 18" horn cabinets for my LF, but im interested to hear what the story is with thes LAB subs, they certainly sound great.  What sort of numbers do you think we will be needing to happly thump an audence outdoors of 5000people?  

we had also thought about surrounding the audience in bass cabinet stacks?

Just a general question here, interested to hear your thoughts, and experiences with LAB sub in situations like this

Cheers

Rick
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Tamas Tako

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Re: LAB Sub sounds great
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2004, 03:51:23 am »

Hi,

I would say it depends from the type of music, how many LAB you need for an audience of 5000 open air.

Let's talk about numbers.
if you would use 4-5 stacks along the stage with 6-8 LABs on the Left and Right side and 2-3 times 4 pieces in the front of the stage, and then you "ARC" the horizontal sub array to get a virtualy point source, you can get a quite even sub distribution.
Driving one LAB with 2500-3000 watt capable amp(this would be then the peak power), you would get a max. SPL@50m of 126dB and @100m 120dB...

Those numbers are based on my 10m measurements, and not verifyed at 50m and 100m!

However I always prefer by Rave and Techno music to increase the number of boxes and decrease the driving power to protect the drivers when tzhey should sound 10 hours long...

For normal rock, hip hop and rap or pop materials these numbers are even too mutch for 5000 people

I think the minimum quantity would be 3x or 4x 4 pieces of LABs using the "ARC" technique described above.

All the best,

Tako Tamas

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raj

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Re: LAB Sub sounds great
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2004, 09:12:21 am »

 Smile Dear Tako Tamas,
  I read about  the "ARC" technique you have described in your last post,for some

time I have also been thinking about of lab sub placement in open area,for live

programmes & dance parties.
I will be greatful if you and other friends could advise on lab sub placement

techniques , various experiments tried out , Xover frequeny etc .Some basic tips

will be useful.


ps
when I was sending this post I got the message that my cookie has expired,I had

got myself registered only a few days back on this new software of the

forum,please make my registration permanent
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RL

Rick

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Re: LAB Sub sounds great
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2004, 07:13:35 pm »

Hey all,

I would also been keen to hear a little more about sub placement for open air dance events, and reccomended pages one the net ?

And alos, what would be the story with surrounding an audence of 5000 in hexagonal shape of bass stacks? It seems ok to me, but is there a large problem that I dont know about ?
The thing with this festival, is the idea to be different, and I this certainly hasent been done in New Zealand, and im sure it would give the ravers one hell of a thump ! We are looking at running around 70,000W for the bass stacks. I certanly think the LAB would do the trick for us.

Cheers

Ricky Owens
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Michael_Elliston¶

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Re: LAB Sub sounds great
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2004, 12:56:58 am »

That really sounds amazing! will it be near Auckland?

I dont know about the cancellations etc if you have an array that is surrounding the audience..some one will know here.

http://www.prosoundweb.com/install/synaudcon/tt26_3/tt26_3_p 1.shtml

I live in dunedin,where nothing much happens basswise Very Happy

I do know that a solid clean 42hz sounds awesome at high spl,so having 35hz ish performance can give people a fright.

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Rick

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Re: LAB Sub sounds great
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2004, 02:06:21 am »

Yes, the idea is it to be different, and as far as I know there hasent been a festival will such a big bass rig. I ask why.., and I why not ! Of course, it would be a feedback nightmare for a band reinforcemnt situation, but for DJ's, no problem there.

We will be holding it in Hawkes Bay.
Cheak us out @ www.expuls.co.nz

Well, I think the LAB horn might just do the tick, the laser cutters are going to have fun next year cutting 70 cabinets, and assembling them all!

cheers
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Michael Strickland

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Re: LAB Sub sounds great
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2004, 10:59:52 am »

70 LAB's? Holy crap. I don't know much about arcing them, but I do know that you'll run into phasing issues setting them up as "surround sound". It's less of an issue for the tops because the wave form's are much shorter. With 50 cycles, you'll end up with HUGE nulls in places and HUGE sums in others, not only size wise but amplitude wise as well.
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"Can you turn the monitors down please, IT HURTS!" - M.I.A.

Rick

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Re: LAB Sub sounds great
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2004, 06:10:30 pm »

Ha, yeah, I certanly for see problems, but am keen to hear from someone who has given this sort of idea a go.  If no, then It looks like we will might have to give it a shot !
I think being outdoors, and the stacks will be fairly spaced out, im hoping not to run into to may wave related problems.
But the phasing issues will always be there, just need to work out a practical way of working with them.
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Marjan Milosevic

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Re: LAB Sub sounds great
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2004, 04:25:30 am »

Hi Rick,

First of all it is very nice to be entusiastic but...

For driving 70 labsubs you will need at least 140 000W of power amps and for 5000 people it will be a huge overkill.

Beside the time and work needed to build them, you will spend aproximately 500 - 600$ per box plus 300$ for drivers for each Labsub, which is total of about 60K$. And that is yust subs, no mains, no amps, you know what I meen.

So we are talkin SERIOUS money.

What are you think you can use to keep up with 70 labs?

How many amps will you use for the whole system 100+ maybe???
For 5000 people ??????

Are we talkin about Motorhead outdoor concert? Or NO SLEEP IN HAMMERSMITH Festival?

For that kind of money you can rent any sound system you like. Also you will need HUGE storage place that needs to be payed too. Not to mention the work labor.

If I were you I will consider more realistic sound system.

Here at the forum you have people who has done 5000 audience with yust 4 labs (two per side), so maybe they can comment on this to.

I am not trying to discurage you but, unless you have more events, not one planed for 1,5 year from now (at least 10 BIG events per year) you will be loosing money. Investing 60K$ and make yust enough to pay the rent for the warehouse is no sence for me.

Thans  just my 2 cents
MarjanM

Tamas Tako

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Re: LAB Sub sounds great
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2004, 05:45:32 am »

Hi,

I agree.

For 5000 people outdoors I would use maximum 20-24 pieces of LAB and that only when I need to push them 10-12 hours long with Techno or Drum&bass material. So I can drive them just with ca. half power peak and this would be OK even when it is warm and sunny out there.
For normal production 4x4 =16 pieces is enough.
I also don't prefer the subs placement around the audience. It is not easy to make sound good.

cheers,

Tamas



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