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Author Topic: Mackie and marketing  (Read 8703 times)

Timoteus Ruotsalainen

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Mackie and marketing
« on: April 21, 2004, 11:15:52 AM »

I was reading a Mackie advertisement and couldn't believe they would actually use such terms to market their product. "Use of passive element achieves bigger sound" this is on an ad for a active (studio monitor) speaker.I'm pretty sure that most speaker elements are in fact passive.

Next they advertise a 1604 VLZ PRO "Need a preamp? save 2000Euro -get a free mixer" "16 channel preamp with built in 'all-around' mixer" "XDR preamp is non sensitive to RF interference"

While i haven't seen these products I feel that the advertising complete bogus. No wonder musicians keep buying this stuff. And get this, the 1604 is MORE expensive in someplace's compared to a Mixwiz.

I seriously hope I don't have to buy anything from a company that is printing this kind of ads. And I'm not talking mackie specifically. The Finnish company who's ad this was had more of these "German jokes" in their advertisements

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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Mackie and marketing... caveat emptor
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2004, 03:23:30 PM »

Timoteus Ruotsalainen wrote on Wed, 21 April 2004 10:15

I was reading a Mackie advertisement and couldn't believe they would actually use such terms to market their product. "Use of passive element achieves bigger sound" this is on an ad for a active (studio monitor) speaker.I'm pretty sure that most speaker elements are in fact passive.

Next they advertise a 1604 VLZ PRO "Need a preamp? save 2000Euro -get a free mixer" "16 channel preamp with built in 'all-around' mixer" "XDR preamp is non sensitive to RF interference"

While i haven't seen these products I feel that the advertising complete bogus. No wonder musicians keep buying this stuff. And get this, the 1604 is MORE expensive in someplace's compared to a Mixwiz.

I seriously hope I don't have to buy anything from a company that is printing this kind of ads. And I'm not talking mackie specifically. The Finnish company who's ad this was had more of these "German jokes" in their advertisements

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Timoteus Ruotsalainen


Without getting into a deep philosophical debate about the value of advertising, Mackie was (IMO) the first to bring consumer style advertising to the US M.I. market. While it may turn off a few customers, Mackie quickly gained tens of millions worth of market share from established companies who were slow to react.

The reality is that many products in those segments are more similar than different. Advertisers now must yell louder and louder to be heard above the din created.

FWIW "XDR preamp is non sensitive to RF interference" is code for "we fixed the RF problems that plagued our early mixers". The "buy a preamp and get a free mixer" sounds a little like an ad campaign I did years ago, selling "SOTA mic preamps in groups of 8, 12, 16, etc with mixers attached...."

While no amount of advertising will make customers accept that more than 2 mic preamps in a common chassis, could ever be any good, adverting loud and often that you think so will get (some) customers to believe maybe your preamps are better than others. In fact the main difference is typically in the dollars spent on advertising.

JR  
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Greg Cameron

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Re: Mackie and marketing
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2004, 04:43:54 PM »

Timoteus Ruotsalainen wrote on Wed, 21 April 2004 08:15

"Use of passive element achieves bigger sound" this is on an ad for a active (studio monitor) speaker.I'm pretty sure that most speaker elements are in fact passive.


FWIW, they're referring to the passive radiator on the back of the cabinet under the power amp module, not the drivers on the front.

Cheers,
Greg
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David Gunnardo

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Re: Mackie and marketing
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2004, 06:07:42 PM »

I don't want to defend mackie in any way, but these examples were not that "bad", if you ask me.

if you, for example, look at tc-electronics folder, they have written like this:
"M3000 is the best sounding, most versatile and easiest to use professional reverb today and well into the future."

eh.. that seems even worse than that preamp-thing Smile

EVERY company describes their products as very good in their ads and commersials.. simple as that. if they wouldn't, they would not sell.. Sad
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yam4000vca Jim Gould

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Re: Mackie and marketing
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2004, 06:40:44 PM »

I do not really want to defend Mackie as I am very much not into bull-shit hype in any way and am more interested in the facts.
In this case referring to passive elements in a speaker is pretty accurate as they are referring to passive radiators in a subwoofer system. As there are not any voice coils on passive radiators I do get the drift of what they are talking about.
I can not speak directly to this product having not heard it but in this type of thing what they say can be true as to making a bigger sound.
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Andy Peters

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Re: Mackie and marketing
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2004, 07:25:45 PM »

David-DLT wrote on Wed, 21 April 2004 15:07

If you, for example, look at tc-electronics folder, they have written like this:
"M3000 is the best sounding, most versatile and easiest to use professional reverb today and well into the future."


Hey, you could change "tc electronics" to "Yamaha" and change "reverb" to "mixing console" and it's the same exact ad copy Smile

Of course, the Yamaha mixer has a Fisher-Price feel to it ...
-a
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Timoteus Ruotsalainen

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Re: Mackie and marketing
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2004, 02:42:09 AM »

I wrote a long post and i disappeared when i right-clicked so I'll make it short and simple.

I don't have a problem with companies bragging themselfs. I just skip that part. BUT when a company advertises that I'm buying a mixer with X number of auxes and you can only use X minus Y of them at the same time (mackie 6 auxes only 4 usable at the same time) I consider that as bs'ing the customer. Kinda like saying you have a V6 motor but you can only use it as a V4. Ok not such a good example but you get the point

Big apology for Mackie about the passive radiator. That info is correct and i'm glad I got that resolved.

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TImoteus Ruotsalainen
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Dave Stevens

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Re: Mackie and marketing
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2004, 03:40:18 AM »

Andy Peters wrote on Wed, 21 April 2004 16:25

Of course, the Yamaha mixer has a Fisher-Price feel to it ...


But the low end tc stuff has a Fisher-Price feel as well, except that is sounds good... and is way affordable.  The Yamaha stuff with the Fisher-Price feel sounds, well PlaySkool...

Dave
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David Gunnardo

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Re: Mackie and marketing
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2004, 05:36:45 AM »

yes yamaha also writes similar texts in their advertisment.. every company does, that was my point Smile

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Andy Peters

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Re: Mackie and marketing
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2004, 01:24:05 PM »

Dave wrote on Thu, 22 April 2004 00:40

Andy Peters wrote on Wed, 21 April 2004 16:25

Of course, the Yamaha mixer has a Fisher-Price feel to it ...


But the low end tc stuff has a Fisher-Price feel as well, except that is sounds good... and is way affordable.  The Yamaha stuff with the Fisher-Price feel sounds, well PlaySkool...


True.  I'll take back that comment about the  Fisher-Price "feel;" my brothers (both have kids) tell me that the Fisher-Price stuff holds up well to abuse.

--a
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Steve Stallings

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Re: Mackie and marketing
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2004, 03:03:01 PM »

I personally could care less what Mackie advertise. Their 24x8 buss mixer (and 32x8) is an industry standard. I've had my 24x8 for 8 years and it is rock solid. I think the hype about their pre's is a bit over the top, but still, I use the pres for some tracking of cymbals and toms in my studio with quite acceptable results. We use a CFX20 in our church and I'm using a 1642VLZ for a system I'm building now. I've been very happy with Mackie products. People get so wrapped up in "brands" and fail to realize that all of this stuff is simply "tools". Still, the small format analog Mackie mixers are widely accepted in pro level use as sub mixers and such.

Hype? You want hype? Let's talk big boy toy mic pre's!
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Dave Dermont

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Re: Mackie and marketing
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2004, 03:21:12 PM »

SteveE9C6 wrote on Fri, 23 April 2004 14:03

 Their 24x8 buss mixer (and 32x8) is an industry standard.


What industry might that be?? Laughing
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Phil Ouellette

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Re: Mackie and marketing
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2004, 08:52:57 PM »

Another Dave wrote on Fri, 23 April 2004 15:21

SteveE9C6 wrote on Fri, 23 April 2004 14:03

 Their 24x8 buss mixer (and 32x8) is an industry standard.


What industry might that be?? Laughing



The SR24-4 is a staple item in the small church setting.  Sort of like a Big Mac combo, not great, but filling.

Phil

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Dietrich Sider

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Re: Mackie and marketing
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2004, 12:02:34 AM »

Another Dave wrote on Fri, 23 April 2004 15:21

SteveE9C6 wrote on Fri, 23 April 2004 14:03

 Their 24x8 buss mixer (and 32x8) is an industry standard.


What industry might that be?? Laughing



I've seen a lot of them in *cough* studios, if that's what you're getting at Dave. And a lot of 24/4s in small clubs.

Does this mean they're great, or just prove that the marketing that we started out talking about was highly effective?

Marketing is marketing. I'd like to think that people are like me and take it all in with a grain of salt, but I suspect I'm being too generous.
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Dave Dermont

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Re: Mackie and marketing
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2004, 05:19:20 AM »

My biggest gripe with Mackie marketing is calling a mixer you can plug 28 mics into a "32 channel".

Having 6 auxes, but only 4 knobs is a grey area to me. Not "lying", but not telling the whole truth either.

A mixer you can plug 28 mics into that one guy can carry to a gig under his arm is a very useful tool.

I saw a Ska band's rider that said "Mackie 1604 or better". They carried their own M88's, RE-20's, and MD409's around too. I figure that having good mics makes for less of a need for EQ.

I'd be willing to bet that a major portion of all the audio you hear on TV passes through a Mackie somewhere along the way.

I enjoy the creativity in their print ads. The recent tough business decisions they had to make kind of kills the "downhome" corporate image they were trying to project.

The layout of the 8 bus is kind of bizzare. I don't have a degree in marketing, but I bet "kind of bizzare" would not make good ad copy. Call it a gut feeling.

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Andy Peters

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Re: Mackie and marketing
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2004, 04:14:35 PM »

Another Dave wrote on Sat, 24 April 2004 02:19

My biggest gripe with Mackie marketing is calling a mixer you can plug 28 mics into a "32 channel".


Two words: Midas Venice.

Quote:

I saw a Ska band's rider that said "Mackie 1604 or better". They carried their own M88's, RE-20's, and MD409's around too. I figure that having good mics makes for less of a need for EQ.


Good mics, sure -- how about good SOURCES?

Quote:

The layout of the 8 bus is kind of bizzare. I don't have a degree in marketing, but I bet "kind of bizzare" would not make good ad copy. Call it a gut feeling.


It was also designed for project studios.  The fact that it had a lot of channels and was cheap made it popular for live use, mainly because there was nothing else near it in price range at the time.

--a
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Mike Chapin

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Re: Mackie and marketing
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2004, 05:27:27 PM »

Andy Peters wrote on Sat, 24 April 2004 21:14

Another Dave wrote on Sat, 24 April 2004 02:19

My biggest gripe with Mackie marketing is calling a mixer you can plug 28 mics into a "32 channel".


Two words: Midas Venice.


I'm not sure of your point. The Venice 320 can accept only 28 mics as well. Then again, that may be your point.
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Andy Peters

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Re: Mackie and marketing
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2004, 06:03:47 PM »

Bullum wrote on Sat, 24 April 2004 14:27

Andy Peters wrote on Sat, 24 April 2004 21:14

Another Dave wrote on Sat, 24 April 2004 02:19

My biggest gripe with Mackie marketing is calling a mixer you can plug 28 mics into a "32 channel".


Two words: Midas Venice.


I'm not sure of your point. The Venice 320 can accept only 28 mics as well. Then again, that may be your point.



That's exactly my point.

-a
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Re: Mackie and marketing
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2004, 06:20:18 PM »

Another Dave wrote on Sat, 24 April 2004 04:19

My biggest gripe with Mackie marketing is calling a mixer you can plug 28 mics into a "32 channel".

Having 6 auxes, but only 4 knobs is a grey area to me. Not "lying", but not telling the whole truth either.

A mixer you can plug 28 mics into that one guy can carry to a gig under his arm is a very useful tool.

I saw a Ska band's rider that said "Mackie 1604 or better". They carried their own M88's, RE-20's, and MD409's around too. I figure that having good mics makes for less of a need for EQ.

I'd be willing to bet that a major portion of all the audio you hear on TV passes through a Mackie somewhere along the way.

I enjoy the creativity in their print ads. The recent tough business decisions they had to make kind of kills the "downhome" corporate image they were trying to project.

The layout of the 8 bus is kind of bizzare. I don't have a degree in marketing, but I bet "kind of bizzare" would not make good ad copy. Call it a gut feeling.




I used to call their input inflation "Mackie Math". They were throwing such heavy dollars into advertising others had little choice but to follow suit. The Mackie 8-bus layout looked to me like a tricked up in-line recording console... perhaps bizarre was marketing it for Live and Recording use, but that worked well for them too.

JR
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