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Author Topic: System under a budget  (Read 7300 times)

n_janette

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Re: System under a budget
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2004, 12:21:24 AM »

Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 23 April 2004 17:42



ISometimes people are obstinate and don't want to listen to hard-learned advice.


Ah, irony on the Internet; how sweet it is.

Just a thought: sometimes the message, no matter how correct, can be lost in the din of the shouting.

Cheers,

-Nathan
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Alan Hamilton

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Re: System under a budget
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2004, 12:19:25 PM »

david423 wrote on Fri, 23 April 2004 06:27



Biggest factor, money. $4000 is stretching it. The big money in that school goes for the showchoir. You are not going to find any people to donate money for a rock band. This is just a new thing for them to try.

Lastly, I am just trying to find out the best stuff that he can get for that money. If all goes well, then their budget gets bigger and they can always add on. If this is just way too far out, then just tell me and i'll pass it on that he just needs to get more money. Thanks again.


The answer is:
They can't get anything (low line/mid line/top of the line) for that budget to do the job.... or even get remotely close. Any money spent trying to meet that budget will be -wasted-.

You figure out the minimum needs, weed out the wants, and at the end of the day the system will cost what it costs. It matters not what someone 'wants' to spend.


.02,
AlanH
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Alan Hamilton

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Re: System under a budget
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2004, 12:22:43 PM »

Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 23 April 2004 19:22

David,

I know this will sound like a broken record but I have to shout it, shout it out loud:

TELL YOUR FRIEND THAT HE SHOULD CALL THE LOCAL PA COMPANY AND HIRE IN A RIG FOR EACH GIG.

Seriously.

After he pisses away his four large on leftover/beatup/inadequate gear, he STILL needs someone to set it up, run it, and truck it from show to show, and a place to store it, and he needs to insure it, and maintain it, and all of the little things that go with being a sound company.

Seriously.

For small rooms, the PA rental cost isn't a whole lotta money.  For bigger things and outdoor shows, sure, the PA rental will be more money, but guess what? The organization that hires the band has to foot the bill for production costs -- and that includes hiring-in a proper sound system.

Seriously.




Do you ever get the feeling nobody is listening when you don't give the answer they were wanting to hear?

That's good advice that you are giving. I hope people are paying attention.

Seriously.

Sad

-AlanH
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Andy Zimmerman

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Re: System under a budget
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2004, 11:27:30 PM »

I think the best piece of advice given is for the band to ask themselves if they want to be a band or a PA company. It is hard to do both. Say Joe the guitarist fronts the $4000 and somehow gets a kickin' PA system. Everything's great - until Joe gets pissed and takes off, with his system. But Joe isn't going to get a decent system for much under $20K, if that, IF he is smart and shops around. More likely, Joe and his buddies will scrimp together some hard-earned cash and buy some used and abused gear or sell their soul down at GC for a line of credit and some overpriced MI stuff that the salesman sold them. Then they will discover that owning a PA system is like owning a house or a boat - it is a money pit, and the need to replace / repair / upgrade or just add the newest WhizBang 3000 never really goes away. At a time when they would like to spend money on a new guitar, a better keyboard, etc; they need to spend more cash on the PA. Also, at a time when the band is up and rising, needing good sound to build their reputation up, they are still fooling around , trying to get the PA set right so they will sound decent. Why not let someone who has the PA part covered come in and help you guys out? I would suggest you dig through the archives on this board - there are quite a few who have asked this question before, and you can gain some valuable insight by reading some of the response to their questions. Then, if you decide to become a PA company after all, at least you will have a realistic idea of what it involves.
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Mike Sveda

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Re: System under a budget
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2004, 11:28:41 AM »

I'll second that Carvin would be good choice for a $4000 budget to get a decent system that is not Chinese made but USA made.

Dave Dermont

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Re: System under a budget
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2004, 01:29:59 PM »

Buying a Carvin rig is a slightly better suggestion than, say, taking a bushel basket full of dollar bills and throwing it off a cliff. If you are doing an acoustic duo in a coffee shop, they would get you by.

There are better ways to spend $4K.

Renting is not a bad suggestion. Is there a way to budget $500.00 to rent a PA for the gigs? This gets you a better system, someone to run it, and does away with issues like maintenance, storage, and transportation.

It is my experience that everyone who claims that they are willing to help with the laborious task of moving a PA are always busy at crunch time.

ANY system you buy/rent/borrow will need someone with some sort of clue as to how to set it up and run it.

For something inexpensive to buy, look for something like a used Community CSX60/CSX70 setup driven with QSC RMX or PLX, Crown CE or the like. You can get 4 boxes and 2 amps within your $4K budget. Figure $500 each (used) for the boxes, and $1000(new)for each amp.

The CSX boxes are not my favorite, but they are loud as hell, are incredibly efficient, so you don't need huge amps to drive them, and they hold up well. No, they won't fill a room that can hold 1000 people with concert level sound, but they will rock a fairly good sized dance floor.

A powered box rig like the FBT MaxX9/MaxX4 would cost about the same. It would sound better, but not be as loud.

For reference, an EAW LA rig with power runs about $4K per stack.

For a mixer, a Spirit LX-7 is under $1K for 24 channels.

The DBX 1231 EQ is generally recognized as the cheapest EQ that's worth a shit. Get them for about $350.00 each.

It's up to you to decide how you use the advice in this thread. I guarantee it's worth every penny it cost you.   Razz
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Henry Denman

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Re: System under a budget
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2004, 03:20:23 PM »

Bottom line is 4k is not enough money to do the job correctly.  Fact is, it is not enough money to do the job incorrectly.  Trying to purchase a system to cover 1k of people would simply make the band, and sound person look bad.

It is however enough money to get a couple of gigs together that could get them out and raise money to buy a system or continue renting.  I would also consider finding a sound guy who has a least some experience in this kind of stuff to help.  You don't want a newbie to walk in and kill things before they start.

Henry
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