Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Elgaard]

We are expanding our church.

The church will be aprox. 30 meters long ahd 10 meters wide.

Today I have a discussion with my fellow technician about the placement of our speakers 4 x Yamaha MS400.

What will be best: Placing them in the side of the church (two in front, and two in the midle) or flying them from the cealing in aprox. 4 meters heigth. There will be two subs under the scene in the middle with a grill in front of them.

Please help

[iJam]

Elgaard,

  Get an electronic systems contractor. There is no way anyone can answer your questions based on the information given. What I can say is that should you provide more information we'll be happy to answer your questions.  Also realize the limitations of what you are working with. The Yamahas are not meant to be clustered so that is not an option. If you place 2 up front and then midway back you put two more you will need a delay unit of some kind and someone who knows how to set it.  

  Have you considered using these as monitors and buying new FOH speakers?

[Tim Padrick]

One-box line arrays would work very well, but it's not a cheap proposition.

http://www.slsloudspeakers.com/LS8695%20Line%20Array.htm  One per side, MSRP around $3800/box (I think).

http://www.ribbonloudspeakers.com/_wsn/page2.html  Two stacked per side, about $1800 per box (I think)

http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/SLS/LS8695.htm

[Elgaard]

Hi iJam

We have just hired a pro to give advice with the placement of the speakers.

The Yamaha MS400 is capable of much more than you think.     In the church we have now, we have 2 placed in each side of the church (room for 200 - 250 people), and they are doing the job exellent in conjuction with two subs. In the middle we have placed an EV centercluster.

God bless

Elgaard

[mutinywithin]

i think the best thing for you to do is to put them on the celing like you said put place them in the middle. point each on in difrent directions to fill in the missing spots so every were in the church you can here the persons on stage. pointing them in diffrent direction prevents phase cancelation.



i hope this did you good in some way. i have just been doing this for four years. i am a little nieve about some stuff but i work with the best so that helps. if you have any questions just contact me.

[Elgaard]

Thanks. If we deside to fly them, that will just be the way I planed to place them.

God bless

[Matt Spiece]

The reason the post above reccomended hiring a contractor is there is more to it then just pointing them in different directions.

Each speaker's high-freqency driver has a horn flair.  This controls the high-frequency coverage.  You should find out the coverage of your speakers's horn flair (called dispersion, you should be able to find it in manuals or the factory web site), and do some basic geometry to make sure that the dispersion of each speaker does not overlap, but comes as close to each other as possible.

If you have overlaps, this is where you will get high-freq. phase cancellations in the room.  If they are too far apart, spots will also be lacking in highs because they are not in the coverage patterns.

Another concern, especially when using a center array, is what the horn dispersion is hitting besides the people.  Objects like hard walls will cause the sound to bounce around, increasing the rooms natural reverb and making speech harder to understand.  Because of this you should avoid pointing a speaker directly at a nearby hard surface.  

These two issues together make center arrays tricky.  You will likely find out that you can't properly use all 4 of those Yamahas in a center cluster, possibly only 3, or maybe even 2.  If only 2, you could use 2 of them at front center, and 2 half-way back, and get a delay processor for them.  

[nullset]

Elgaard wrote on Fri, 18 June 2004 07:56

What will be best: Placing them in the side of the church (two in front, and two in the midle) or flying them from the cealing in aprox. 4 meters heigth.

not to beat a dead horse, but....

I seriously hope you aren't thinking of hanging those without consulting a civil engineer.

Those speakers are more than likely not designed to be hung.  It may be possible to hang them safely, but you might be better off just buying speakers designed to be hung if you choose to go that route.

--buddy

[Stuie]

Hi Elgaard

Good problem to have church growth, There are a couple of thing you can do to see if the speakers are going to react to new room. But first of all i would give a sound consultant a couple of guidelines like the following
* db levels or your services, peak and average and on stage
* Preferance of music, ie do you play country or bass heavy stuff, this will depend on your speakers ?
* Will you grow any larger do you need a scalable solution? ie dont buy brand x if in two years your going to need brand A
* How much db variant from front to rear are you going to have?
have about 3db is excellent 6db is Good.

There is a program called 'Ease' it is a computer modelling appliaction that will show you holes, lobes, nulls and evewrything else i forgot. So do some models in ease and placement is easy in a virtual world as opposed to real world.

When you get your speakers, get either a 'Smaart' or 'TEF' in and again align the speakers and tweak the system. Its a simple change sometimes but a major difference. Smaart is basically letting a computer know what your speakers are like and your room is like. Get both the room and your speakers done if you can get your foldbacks tuned up as well amazing.

Cheers
Stuie

[Elgaard]

Hi everyone

Thanks for all the advise you have given to me regarding the church.

We have now finished the installation of the PA system.

It ended up with two speakers hung fairly high in each side of the scene. Build in to a depotroom, with just speaker "looking" out.

In the middle of the church we placed another pair on each side.

And I can tell you:  

The sound is just so good and well defined.

God bless

PS: We will use it in public fir the first time on the sunday service.

[nullset]

Elgaard wrote on Thu, 05 August 2004 05:16

Hi everyone Thanks for all the advise you have given to me regarding the church. We have now finished the installation of the PA system. It ended up with two speakers hung fairly high in each side of the scene. Build in to a depotroom, with just speaker "looking" out.

Pictures?  please tell me you consulted an engineer to have the rigging verified as safe....

--buddy

[Elgaard]

Hi

All is checked by a pro as OK  

I will try to get some pictures to upload.

For the moment Im trying to configure a Yamaha 01v96 digitalmixer    Is there anyone out there who own such a mixer, and maybe can give me some advice.

The exact problem is to route my signals to a Behringer ADA 8000 ADAT converter. We have a lots of outputs to childsrom ect.

God bless

Elgaard

[ProSoundWeb Community]