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Author Topic: Subs  (Read 5040 times)

skipmo

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Subs
« on: May 18, 2004, 07:53:07 pm »

i have a 90X60, 15ft high, room and i am wanting some recommendations for subs.  We play rock/pop and want deep tight bass.  Currently we use JBL srx double 18's and can't stand them.
Thanks for your time Razz
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Tom Young

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Re: Subs
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2004, 08:08:57 pm »

"we use JBL srx double 18's and can't stand them."

How subwoofers behave in any space depends on the dimensions of that space and the position of the subwoofers.  The subwoofer amplifier has a great effect on how well they perform as well, primarily in available power and headroom. Subwoofers also benefit from (require) optimization just as much as any other part of the loudspeaker system. This includes determining that the subs are all in the same polarity and that they combine well into the rest of the system. For the latter, you will need a separate signal path through DSP in order to provide parametric EQ, delay, high-pass filter and crossover into the upper part of the system.

Although your subs may not be the "best" ones available, you are likely to be just as dissatisfied with any other subwoofer system if the above needs are not met.

If I were you I would first completely test the subwoofer system, conduct complex measurement and listening tests while experimenting with placement, alignment and optimization.  Chances are this will improve their performance substantially.

After this has been done you may still find the need to upgrade to a better subwoofer for your system.  But the processing and amplifier will still be an important part of the new subwoofer system.
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Tom Young, Church Sound section moderator
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skipmo

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Re: Subs
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2004, 10:17:21 pm »

Thanks for your quick reply.
We are running the subs through an aux send and this was the best they have sounded so far. My main complaint is that we had some inexpensive (peavey) sp series 18's before and they were much punchier than our JBL's.  We cross over the JBL's @180
and run crown CE4000's bridged on each cabinet.  We have done some comparisons and they just seem really woofy and boomy.
Thanks for your time again.
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Tim Padrick

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Re: Subs
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2004, 10:36:12 pm »

Unless your top boxes are awfully teeny, 180Hz is way too high to cross over.  You'll have a lot of upper bass and not a lot of sub bass.  100Hz is more a common starting point.  You may even wish to go lower, depensing upon how spotty the coverage of the top boxes gets at the bottom owing to their placement.  To read about problems caused by placement, go to http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/SubwooferInfo.htm then hit the first two links on the page.

These aren't my favorite subs, but I have heard them make a pretty decent noise on a number of occasions.

What crossover and top boxes are you using?

BigSmooth

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Re: Subs
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2004, 11:26:41 am »

In one of our Misc Rooms we run the SRX dual subs....imho they sound great. We have a CE2000 running them with it crossed over at 80. When i read your post and saw that you had it crossed over at 180hz i was floored Wink. Definitely try what Timmy said and start at 100hz.
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Stuie

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Re: Subs
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2004, 09:11:52 pm »

Hi

If you a having some dramas with your sub you can get some smaart tests done and find where the holes are at. What Xover are you using ?

Change the Xover point down the 100hz can help to have a differnt sound. The woofy type sound lives around 35 - 50hz the bottoming out sound should be 25 - 35hz. If you can compress the sub that can be nice option as well tighten up the attck and the sub sound abit more punch less woof.

Your in Christ and dB
Long live power alley

Stuie
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soundman1024

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Re: Subs
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2004, 02:36:44 am »

we have some of those jbl subs in our youth room and they kick hard and hit over 120db.  we just run a crown microtech 2400 with a crossover at 100hz and it shakes the camera and it has a stabilizer.  i know they are 200 pounds, but try some different places if you can.
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Jamie G

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Re: Subs
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2004, 04:26:51 pm »

One of the Sound Companies I mix for uses the same subs. They use 2 double 18 cab's per side with CE4000's. Crossed anywhere between 80-120hz depending on the venue. Personally, I am not a fan of JBL LF drivers. They have alway's sounded mushy to me. I usually use cab's loaded with EV 1000w 18's or B&C 1000w 18's. I also use Crown MacroTech amps (I alway's choose higher rated amp output than what the speaker is rated for). I also roll off 30hz and below if I'm mixing for punch.
Also, If you are looking at getting new subs, you may consider a smaller speaker but more of them if you goal is punch.
In one of the best sounding (and most punchy) systems I run we have MacPherson M1's (LF is 1 horn loaded 400w EV 15). We cross the 15's at 230hz and put those on top of some MacPherson dual 1000w 18 sub's crossed at 100 or so. This has some serious punch. Most of the punch is from the 15's.
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Jamie Gillespie
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Phoenix, AZ

Jamie G

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Re: Subs
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2004, 10:46:07 am »

Thought I better add this...
Are you judging the punch/tightness of the subs by the sound of the kick?
If you are...what mic/mics are you using for the kick and where is it placed?
AKG D112's seem to be the most popular, but, have a big low end bump that makes a kick sound mushy to me. If I'm stuck using one, I put a SM58 in the kick also to give it some punch. I usually use Beta52's (they have a bump up high also).
I place the mic inside the drum about 2" from the batter head, about 2-4" off center of the beater. May have to tilt it away from the snare if you get too much bleed through when you solo the mic.
I have had good results placing a D112 the same way and just throw a 58 in there anywhere.
The thing to remember is that sometimes it's better to move mic's around or pick a different mic or combination of mic's before you go nuts adjusting eq's or changing speakers.
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Jamie Gillespie
Freelance Audio Engineer
Phoenix, AZ

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Subs
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2004, 10:46:07 am »


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