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[Jasen Jacobsen]

I tried using the right for the recorder and the master for the mains, but this resulted in a feed to the house speakers that was dependent on the level that was being sent to the recorder.

Yep. Good catch.

With the config of using the left for the recorder and right for the mains I can now change the record level completely independent of the mains, and vice versa. . . does anyone see any issues with this, I have yet to try it in a service

Sounds like a good plan.

[Jacob Robinson]

Thanks for the help guys, I wished I had stumbled on this forum a year ago!. . . .Next challenge = total system overhaul in the near future hopefully

[David Eidam]

Hi Jacob,

Is your Peavey mixer an MS-Series Stereo Mixing System model? If it is an MS-1621, I may have found a PDF file of the original Owners Manual. Let me know if you'd like me to email it to you.

Regards

[Jon Palmer]

Hello to all and I want to thank this site for the wealth of knowledge over the past couple months, but now I am her to make my first post.

I run the sound for a small church (130 attendees on an average Sunday) and I am having issues with my pastor/ future father-in-law.  He is a very lively speaker and likes an extremely hot monitor mix, the problem is that his voice is so loud without any added microphone that when i do add in the mic for recording purposes the congregation gets blasted (sanctuary size 30' x 75')

Currently I turn his mic almost all the down and the send to the recorder(Tascam CD-RW900SL) all the way up, this works, but it produces a very distant and quiet sound because there very little mic pickup available before it becomes too loud in the church.  We have an ancient 25+ yr. old peavey board with no aux sends.

I hope I gave enough info for you to understand my situation, any thoughts on how to produce a better recording without introducing more volume to the church would be great.

I've had the same problem with preachers that love to hear their own voice. LOL. Just turn it up and use a dbx compressor limiter on that channel (best) or at least before the recorder. Turn up the sound as loud as possible until his wife demands he stop doing that. I'm joking but if he has been doing this for years, as some do, he may have some hearing loss, hence the needed volume.

[Jim Ogann]

Hello to all and I want to thank this site for the wealth of knowledge over the past couple months, but now I am her to make my first post.

I run the sound for a small church (130 attendees on an average Sunday) and I am having issues with my pastor/ future father-in-law.  He is a very lively speaker and likes an extremely hot monitor mix, the problem is that his voice is so loud without any added microphone that when i do add in the mic for recording purposes the congregation gets blasted (sanctuary size 30' x 75')

Currently I turn his mic almost all the down and the send to the recorder(Tascam CD-RW900SL) all the way up, this works, but it produces a very distant and quiet sound because there very little mic pickup available before it becomes too loud in the church.  We have an ancient 25+ yr. old peavey board with no aux sends.

I hope I gave enough info for you to understand my situation, any thoughts on how to produce a better recording without introducing more volume to the church would be great.

I'd suggest you buy a compressor. The little SCOM 4 gives you (4) in one panel for about $180. We use compressors on all our pastor's mics and will never go back. You can connect it as an insert if your board has insert connectors. The book shows you how to wire the connectors and explains how to set it up. Your pastor can pray quietly or yell and the output of the compressor will be the same level.

[Brad Weber]

Your pastor can pray quietly or yell and the output of the compressor will be the same level.

Actually, the level will vary, just not as much.  A basic compressor is simply a fractional multiplier of the signal level.  Typically there is some threshold signal level you select above which the compressor starts to have any effect, if the signal is below that threshold level then nothing happens.  If the signal is above that threshold level then the output above that level is scaled by the compression ratio.
 
So say you set a threshold for -20dBu and have a compression ratio of 4:1.  If the signal level is -20dBu or below then the compressor does nothing.  If the signal level into the compressor is above -20dBu then the level above -20dBu is scaled by 4:1, for each 4dB the signal is above -20dBu there is a 1dB increase.  So a -30dBu or -20dBu input would relate to -30dBu and -20dBu output levels respectively and there is no change.  A -10dBu input would provide a -17.5dBu output and 7.5dB of compression (-20dBu + (10dBu/4) = -17.5 dBu).  A 0dBu input level would result in a -15dBu output and 15dB of compression (-20dBu + (20dBu/4) = -15dBu).
 
A limiter would have more the effect noted as it is essentially an compressor with an infinite compression ratio and once the signal hits the threshold it is not allowed to exceed that level and thus sets the maximum output level.  A comp/limiter or soft knee limiter is pretty much a combination of the two devices, there is one threshold, either independently selectable or a fixed value below the limiting threshold, above which compression is applied and then a second threshold for the level at which limiting is applied.
 
One thing to beware of with applying compressors to Pastors or WLs is that this can affect the dynamics of their vocals, which is often part of their 'instrument'.  Especially if being used primarily to specifically limit the dynamics of their speech, I have found it best to discuss this with such persons prior to implementing it as they may prefer to explore other options.

[Kent Thompson]

Actually, the level will vary, just not as much.  A basic compressor is simply a fractional multiplier of the signal level.  Typically there is some threshold signal level you select above which the compressor starts to have any effect, if the signal is below that threshold level then nothing happens.  If the signal is above that threshold level then the output above that level is scaled by the compression ratio.
 
So say you set a threshold for -20dBu and have a compression ratio of 4:1.  If the signal level is -20dBu or below then the compressor does nothing.  If the signal level into the compressor is above -20dBu then the level above -20dBu is scaled by 4:1, for each 4dB the signal is above -20dBu there is a 1dB increase.  So a -30dBu or -20dBu input would relate to -30dBu and -20dBu output levels respectively and there is no change.  A -10dBu input would provide a -17.5dBu output and 7.5dB of compression (-20dBu + (10dBu/4) = -17.5 dBu).  A 0dBu input level would result in a -15dBu output and 15dB of compression (-20dBu + (20dBu/4) = -15dBu).
 
A limiter would have more the effect noted as it is essentially an compressor with an infinite compression ratio and once the signal hits the threshold it is not allowed to exceed that level and thus sets the maximum output level.  A comp/limiter or soft knee limiter is pretty much a combination of the two devices, there is one threshold, either independently selectable or a fixed value below the limiting threshold, above which compression is applied and then a second threshold for the level at which limiting is applied.
 
One thing to beware of with applying compressors to Pastors or WLs is that this can affect the dynamics of their vocals, which is often part of their 'instrument'.  Especially if being used primarily to specifically limit the dynamics of their speech, I have found it best to discuss this with such persons prior to implementing it as they may prefer to explore other options.

On our pastor I use both a limiter and a compressor. It saves the people's ears sitting 5 rows back from the mains.   I have to use fairly agressive setting on him but, other guests I can tone them down or in some cases bypass them. Just don't use them as a set and forget thing. From one Sunday to the next I have to change the settings on them. I try to keep his voice sounding as natural as I can using them.

[Brian Ehlers]

I try to keep his voice sounding as natural as I can using them.

And that's the key:  to not squash things to the point of sounding unnatural.  In my opinion, this means using a very gentle slope (maybe 1.5 or 2:1), a very slow release time (on the order of seconds), and as low a threshold as is needed -- but without giving yourself a feedback problem.  The attack time needs to be quick enough to catch Plosives, but slow enough to let the transients through.

For those who feel it's a sin to compress the pastor's voice, I suggest you think of it not as squashing down the peaks but as raising up the whispers so that everyone can hear them.  But again, you can only do so much of this before feedback becomes a problem.