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Author Topic: Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont  (Read 7985 times)

Fred Dorado

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Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont
« on: February 07, 2011, 03:07:14 am »

Following up on this thread here, http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/63904/0/0/0/

I was thinking Proco lifelines, because I like the idea of no questions asked warranty, but price might be keeping me away


has anyone used cable from these guys?
 http://www.proaudiola.com/category-s/169.htm

They seem to be using the right cable and connectors based on the previous thread, I am wondering how build quality it. Price seems similar to ewi and they have a lifetime warranty for defects and workmanship. They are also somewhat local to me.

I have repaired a number of our cables, but my work isn't great and getting some handling noise on some so I am thinking of just buying all new cables so we don't have to weed out problems each week.

probably wouldn't be that big of an order, maybe 10-12 10ft cables and a couple of 3ft

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Pete Bansen

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Re: Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2011, 12:33:53 pm »

Those look like reasonable prices for cables made from quality cable and connectors.  They are using the older style Neutrik XLR connectors - the XX series is a little bit nicer - but they still have a very robust strain relief chuck and should provide excellent service.

Build quality is hard to assess without looking at one of their cables (or at a cable made by their least capable guy on his worst day).  I have been making my own for years, but after this discussion and the information I got from Silas, I may be hanging up my soldering iron and buying through him from now on - drop him a line and see what you think.

Pete Bansen
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Fred Dorado

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Re: Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2011, 04:33:59 pm »

Peter, thanks for the reply

Based on what I can see street prices on the CBI's are pretty comparable to EWI an others, unfortunately I know nothing about the different cable properties.

At this point it would seem that quality cable and Neutrik connectors are the right product, which many of these have.

I really like the idea of the lifetime warranty, but a known quality build would be more important.

While the CBI website doesn't say anything about warranty, they would be an option.

No offense to Silas, but I have been buying stuff from Mike Pyle, who is also a dealer and would like to stick with him

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Pete Bansen

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Re: Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2011, 05:02:29 pm »

Hi Fred -

The difference between the CBI cables that Silas handles and the EWI products that Audiopile sells is that the CBI cables are manufactured with brand name cable and connectors (similar to the Pro Audio LA cables that you linked).  The less costly EWI cables are built using their own cable and connectors, although they also sell cables made with Neutrik connectors.  I have a few of the inexpensive EWI cables and have found them to be both well made of good materials and quite durable - they are really quite a bargain.

I totally appreciate your loyalty to Mike - he's a great guy and has been very helpful and accommodating to me.  Mike may be able to become a dealer for the CBI cables if he's interested - I get the impression that Silas is offering to allow people to purchase through him because he does a fair amount of business with CBI and gets a good price.  I have no personal interest one way or the other.  I did pick up some of the Gepco X Band cable that John Halliburton talked about in the old forum thread to try it out and it looks really nice. 
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Mike Pyle

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Re: Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2011, 07:06:36 pm »

Just for the record, I've been a CBI dealer for years, & do spec some of their products especially the MOX cables & MTPA cables (power/signal combo).

I usually spec Rapco for mic cables. Like many mfgrs, they will build cables to whatever standard of quality is specified. I've found that they deliver a quality product at a fair price.

As a aside, I saw a recent announcement that they were aquiring Proco.
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Mike Pyle  Audiopyle Sound  707-315-6204
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Geoff Doane

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Re: Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2011, 09:59:59 pm »

Fred, if you're not in a hurry on these, maybe what you should do is buy a couple examples from some different manufacturers, and start using them on real gigs.  I don't suggest going with the cheapest thing you can find, but you've had a number of suggestions here by now.  Once you've actually used them, you'll find out if the fit and finish from genuine Neutrik connectors is worth it to you, and how easily the different kinds of cable coil up, or lie flat on the stage.

Maybe you'll get some failures too, and you can strike those off your list.  Your client doesn't care about the lifetime warranty you got with your cables when the one on the lead vocal fails in the middle of a song.  I once gave a salesman a chance on some economy cables, on the condition that he would replace them with a higher grade if they failed.  I had a 30% failure rate on the first gig.  He was true to his word, and replaced them with the company's quad line (although I still didn't care much for the Cannon XLB connectors).

Personally, I now roll my own with Neutrik X or XX-series connectors and Canare L-2T2S cable.  I probably could buy them cheaper already made, but I get a certain satisfaction from making them, and I don't have to replace many anyway, only the few that get lost.

GTD
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Marsellus Fariss

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Re: Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2011, 11:00:52 pm »

My vote is for Audiopile.net (EWI) or Orange Co. Speaker stuff. If you're into the hi-fi thing and want to go high end (which in lots of cases doesn't matter) Buy some Mogami and some good ends and make them yourself.
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Matt Martin

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Re: Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2011, 02:43:44 am »

I probably could buy them cheaper already made, but I get a certain satisfaction from making them, and I don't have to replace many anyway, only the few that get lost.

I would have to agree that most of the time is is cheaper to buy them premade, however knowing how they are soldered are worth the world. Assuming that one can solder well. I am a dealer for a few companies, and use Rapco for all my personal stage stuff. Great quality and decent prices.

Note that there is always better cable out there if you're willing to pay for it. However, price for quality isn't true, so don't think I'm saying that. See: Monster
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Matt Martin
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Re: Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2011, 02:48:12 am »

As a aside, I saw a recent announcement that they were aquiring Proco.

Mike, I think RHC acquired ProCo in the 4Q in 2010. It might have just recently been finalized, however.
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Matt Martin
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Fred Dorado

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Re: Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2011, 01:06:47 pm »

Thanks for the input

Geoff, no clients, just me. It is for our church and we are the end/only users. So as long as I am happy, we are good.

I think I am about to place an order with Mike, but a few questions.

For quality connection does it matter whether the Neutrik connectors are X or XX series?

Right now we are only using wall plates, so I think 10ft is best. I am going to add floor pockets in the near future, should I get shorter 6ft ones too? Our stage isn't that big. I already have very short ones for the Di's

and on the personal level

Any reason to prefer black over silver connectors?

I am looking at these with the Neutrik ends
http://www.rapcohorizon.com/p-69-m4-microphone-cable.aspx


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Geoff Doane

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Re: Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2011, 03:01:48 pm »

I think the XX series is slowly replacing the X series.  I expect that X series will eventually become as scarce as the old C series are now.  There are a few improvements in the XX, and no downsides that I've found so far.

10 ft. sounds short to me.  Do a  mock setup and measure how much length you're actually using.  I have 5m (16.5 ft.) and 8m (26.5 ft.) cables in each kit.  Black connectors on the long ones, and silver on the short, so it's easy to tell them apart when there is a pile of cables.  There is no performance difference.  Even with the gold plated option (on black shells only), I don't think there is an audible difference.  Silver actually has lower resistance, and although it oxidizes, silver oxide is still a good conductor.  For vocal mics, if they are a dark colour, I like to use the black connectors, but that's just me.

Your client is your audience (congregation).  They may be more forgiving than a paying client, but they still deserve reliable audio.  There is a certain satisfaction in grabbing a cable out of a box and knowing that it will work.

GTD
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Jason Hanan -- Pro Audio LA

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Re: Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2011, 07:56:24 pm »

I think the XX series is slowly replacing the X series.  I expect that X series will eventually become as scarce as the old C series are now.  There are a few improvements in the XX, and no downsides that I've found so far.

10 ft. sounds short to me.  Do a  mock setup and measure how much length you're actually using.  I have 5m (16.5 ft.) and 8m (26.5 ft.) cables in each kit.  Black connectors on the long ones, and silver on the short, so it's easy to tell them apart when there is a pile of cables.  There is no performance difference.  Even with the gold plated option (on black shells only), I don't think there is an audible difference.  Silver actually has lower resistance, and although it oxidizes, silver oxide is still a good conductor.  For vocal mics, if they are a dark colour, I like to use the black connectors, but that's just me.

Your client is your audience (congregation).  They may be more forgiving than a paying client, but they still deserve reliable audio.  There is a certain satisfaction in grabbing a cable out of a box and knowing that it will work.

GTD

Also, I thought I'd chime in on the X vs. the XX connectors.  Having worked with both extensively, there is no doubt that the X series are better quality than the XX series.  Mogami themselves still use the X series for a reason.  It's a more expensive product that is built tougher.  The only downfall I'd say is that the X series has a slightly wider profile, which in some cases like MOTU boxes, the slimmer XX series works better with connection points so close to one another.  We'll continue to use the X series as long as they are available.  Hold them both in your hands, and you'll understand what I mean :-)

Cheers,
Jason


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Nils Erickson

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Re: Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2011, 03:58:10 am »

I've been using Rapco Road Hog mic cables for years... quite simply, I like the tough jackets that coil very easily without funky kinks.  I have had good luck in that regard with Mogami and Canare as well.

Cheers,
Nils
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Geoff Doane

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Re: Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2011, 12:56:04 pm »

Also, I thought I'd chime in on the X vs. the XX connectors.  Having worked with both extensively, there is no doubt that the X series are better quality than the XX series.  Mogami themselves still use the X series for a reason.  It's a more expensive product that is built tougher.  The only downfall I'd say is that the X series has a slightly wider profile, which in some cases like MOTU boxes, the slimmer XX series works better with connection points so close to one another.  We'll continue to use the X series as long as they are available.  Hold them both in your hands, and you'll understand what I mean :-)

Cheers,
Jason


www.ProAudioLA.com
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Are we talking about the same X and XX series here?  Both are 19mm in diametre at the end, but the XX has a slight bulge where the boot threads into the shell.  Drawings and dimensions can be found here:

http://www.neutrik.com/fl/en/audio/203_11/XLR_Cable_Connectors_group.aspx

IMHO, the fact that the boot threads into the shell is an advantage, since one of the ways the X-series failed was when the boot was crushed and broken during rough handling.  The shell should help protect the plastic boot, although they are too new for me to have seen any failures yet.  The male connectors also do not have an opening to receive the mating connector's latch, which often deformed on the older series (again, due to rough handling).

GTD
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2011, 10:11:28 am »

I've been using Rapco Road Hog mic cables for years... quite simply, I like the tough jackets that coil very easily without funky kinks...

+1.  I just bought my 4th or 5th batch of RoadHogs (over the past 8 years) from Mike Pyle at Audiopyle.  I spec 'em for my friends and for my (infrequent) consulting jobs.  There is something about the thick rubber on these cables, and the way they wind up (maybe a fetish, who knows).  The cable itself has changed slightly over the years (they seem a little more powdery off the assembly line now, but it wipes off easily) and they have used a few different Neutrik connectors over the years, but the result is the same: excellent, durable cables at a reasonable price.

In the rare cases when I borrow other peoples cables for a large event, there is never any confusion at the end of the gig over which cables are mine: the thick rubber ones with the colored coded (by length) velcro  :).
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Tim Padrick

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Re: Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2011, 11:41:42 pm »

I like Horizon LowZ1 and Wireworks MusiLUX.  Dunno if Horizon sells ready-mades with that cable (dealers can custom order).  Wireworks: http://www.wireworks.com/Departments/Products/Cords/XLR-Cords/XLR-Cords-Featuring-MusiLUX-Cable.aspx
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Trusted Brands for XLR cable - cont
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2011, 11:41:42 pm »


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