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Author Topic: NOTE MY FOLLOWUP DJ's in contemporary worship?  (Read 8662 times)

Scott Raymond (Scott R)

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NOTE MY FOLLOWUP DJ's in contemporary worship?
« on: April 16, 2004, 01:27:06 pm »

 
Well someone had to kick this forum off! Smile

Just wondering if many of you are using DJ type stuff like scratching in your worship context yet.  We are a small Church but have been using contemporary worship services for a couple years now. (E drums, E and accoustic guitars, piano, keys and percussion.  I just got an email last week about having someone in next week at practice relating to DJing.  We've recently had David Crowder here at the theatre and one of his band members was doing some scratching type of stuff.  Personally I think it belongs in Rap and Hip Hop type music (which we aren't doing) but I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on the subject.

Chris Everett

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Re: DJ's in contemporary worship?
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2004, 03:07:25 pm »

First post on new forums!!!

I've heard of DJ led worship (in the U.K., I think) But I don't know any details.  I've heard Christian Techno, and I saw an article just yesterday on Christian nightclubs...  I don't see anything wrong with turntables being used as an instrument in a contemporary worship setting, but there's not much Christian music out there that uses them to cover...

My .0002 cents
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david423

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Re: DJ's in contemporary worship?
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2004, 02:19:47 am »

I personally think that scratching has no place in comtemporary worship. Its stupid and it is not musical. You want to scratch your praises to God????? No, i don't.

I think there is a time and a place for everything. I can't even stand a lot of electric guitar in my worship mix. Yes, it is good and can be done, but only tastfully. Worship bands are popping up like wildflowers everywhere and are soon on their way to being just like garage bands. Lots of distortion, huge bass, drums just banging, and the lead singer yelling. I personally like the more acoustic approach to worship. I think it is contemporary but also shows reverence. My worship band has an electric guitar, but he plays with taste and very musically. No distortion, just a sort of reverb type jazz sound. Some solos, nothing big, just blended in. That is about as far into the rock world that i want to go.

I heard David Crowder just this past tuesday night at a local private Baptist college, I didn't really care for their music. But I don't like the dance-beat, techno stuff anyway. This is just my personal opinion and we all know "opinions are like buttholes, we all got one, some just stink more than others"

David T
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Phil Ouellette

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Re: DJ's in contemporary worship?
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2004, 08:34:32 am »

david423 wrote on Sat, 17 April 2004 02:19

some just stink more than others"

David T



Actually none of them smells good.  What is cool to me can be offensive to you and vise-versa.  God is not limited by our personal taste.  If people can be blessed by wailing guitars then God is not going to reject them because it's too "rock-n-roll".  The same arguments you make have been and continue to be used against any form of contemporary worship.  I can imagine Gregorian singers railing against harmony a few hundred years back with similar comments.

The bible says to make a joyful noise unto the Lord with clanging of gongs, etc.  No particular worship style is inherently more holy or pleasing to God than another.

Phil
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bottyburp

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Re: DJ's in contemporary worship?
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2004, 10:15:06 am »

Gosh! David T
You have a very small minded view of worship.

What is worship?

Can we worship in our giving?
can we worship in our serving?
Can we worship in our Jobs?

Is worship limited to one style of music, NO that would mean God is limited too.

If we limit worship to one style then we will segregate a whole portion of the human race. Culture plays an important part in the way we worship and so it should.
Around the world there are many cultures with there own styles of music.
Also there are subcultures within these different countries. Let’s look at US
Here you will see subcultures Espanic Creek Mexican, Afro Caribbean, Dutch, Irish (Celtic), Native American.
Within these cultures there are different styles of music which are listened to.
There is rap, techno, dance, rock country celtic classical blues jazz indie Hindi Latino
We could go on and on with the different styles.

All cultures and subcultures should be free to worship God in whatever style they like. This would allow anybody the freedom to worship God no matter what culture they are part of. Nobody has the right to dictate what worship should be.
Many people do not even step inside a church because they feel it has nothing relevant to say to them. Music is another form of communication and has the ability to reach all ages’ cultures and subcultures if allowed to. Allow people the freedom to be creative in church and you will become a lot more relevant to a lot more people. Maybe you will even reach the lost!
Young people are some of the most creative people you will find. Their creativeness is God given and need to be encouraged. The best way to encourage this is to incorporate there creativity into the church, in all aspects of church life, this means the worship too.

It is important not to limit what we see as worship or a worship style. Music was created for all to worship God with; also we were created to be creative. So to be creative in our worship of God is the very thing God intended us to do. It would be foolish to put limits on the gifts God has given us.
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Scott Raymond (Scott R)

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OOPS Lets steer this more in the right direction!!!
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2004, 11:46:29 am »

Guys,

Sorry about that.  Either the guidelines were'nt up at this forum when I posted this or I missed them.  In my zest to get it going I kinda got off what's intended.  Maybe I can re-aim this. When David Crowder was here I was busy enough that I didn't notice how they were implementing everything into the system.  Maybe somebody's seen if they're coming out of a submixer or running units directly into a DI.

Thanks!

James Turner

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Re: OOPS Lets steer this more in the right direction!!!
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2004, 02:44:53 pm »

Hi,

I've just finished working on Easter People here in the UK.

I was working on Video in the 14-18's venue.

One of the points of this week was to demonstrate to some of the youngsters that you can worship in many different ways.

Our house band was
Nevertheless {Lead & Vox} {Keys & Rap} {Bass} {Drums}  

we also had

Replenish,
Yfriday,{Gtr & Vox} {Bass} {Keys, Vox & Gtr} {Drums}
Supervision
29th Chapter. Hip hop {4 Guys Rap over track}

Every band had a different style, Nevertheless were a hard rock band - they were completly different when they did their evening concert to when they were leading the worship during the day, Then they were laid back - unassuming going where the mood took the service, sometimes playing with the DJ who did a bit of scratching where appropriate or mixed an atmospheric track to underpin speakers and prayers.

It was a very good event with different styles being demonstrated and everyone hopefuly went home remembering something different and thinking something different.

At home I've worked with 29th Chapter a number of times and AFG Nexus - both hip-hop groups who lead worship in a different way to how young eople expect in SW London.


James



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Billy Merrill

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Re: There is no Christian Music
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2004, 05:02:51 pm »

There is no Christian Music, just Christian lyrics.

All music belongs to God. So is the DJ, band, group, etc.  making music or noise? Music is pleasing to the ear, while most of use would would not tolerate noise for very long.

If we consider why we have Praise and Worship songs, then you come to what Worship is about. Worship is about God, not about us. A singer is singing to the Lord, a musician is playing to the Lord, not for themselves or our entertainment. Look beyond what the musician is doing and look to why they are doing it. If they have a true commitment to Christ, then one should not question what instrument they play, or how they play it. We then have a choice, is this the manner that I can Worship God? If so, stay and join they, if not then one must go else where.

In His Service,

Billy

Cool
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Susie

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Who's worship for?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2004, 03:14:45 pm »

As we all know, worship is not for our benefit, but for God's. Common sense tells me that the style of music someone would listen to on their stereo at home is likely to be similar to the style of worship they feel most comfortable with.  But I have found that some of the times when I have felt God's presence most intensely have been when I pushed through the fact I didn't really like a style and worshiped God anyway, because he's worth it. His command is to make a joyful noise to the Lord - and because he made us all different, that joyful noise won't be the same for everyone.  I could never dare to say that someone who is tone deaf is any less of a worshiper than the most accomplished singer in the world.

My church basically have your run of the mill band setup for Sunday mornings, although the 5 different morning worship leaders all have very different styles and approaches to leading the congregation.  As well as manning FOH for some services, I also sing in one of the worship teams and although I would say 50% of the songs I would not choose to sing at home in my devotional time, I get over it and sing anyway, because its not about me.

Sometimes our church has student specific evening services and these sometimes have DJ-led worship.  The style is not my personal choice but it would be for a lot of the under 25s getting saved and going to church for the first time, because Matt Redman is far more alien to them than decks.

Regarding James 's comments about having a variety of styles at an event such as Easter people; I think its a really good idea.  By having just one style for a whole week's event, you risk alienating a section of the congregation who don't like it.  God gave 29th Chapter the gift of rap in the same way he gave yfriday their musicianship, and inner city urban culture will be able to relate to that style far more than guitar led worship. Its the heart behind something that makes it pleasing to God.
The bottom line is that God created us with diversity.
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nullset

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Re: NOTE MY FOLLOWUP DJ's in contemporary worship?
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2004, 09:30:34 am »

If you're interested in christian electronic music, i'd recommend that you visit www.tastyfresh.com

ttyl,

--buddy
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Hansel Anasarias

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Re: NOTE MY FOLLOWUP DJ's in contemporary worship?
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2004, 05:50:39 pm »

Wow...this is quite interesting,

It does not say in the bible, thou shalt not scratch during worhsip time.  Seriously though, there is a time and place for everything.  If your church is open to that kind of worship, I say go right ahead and do it.  Music exists because it's meant to worship the Lord, and if that's how you or anyone wants to worship the Lord they should do so.  Scratching is like a like a guitar solo.  It's an accessory to the music.
It is also a cultural and possibly an age issue.  Most elderly people can't even hang with drums in worship. (time and place for everything).  Some churches aren't cool with it, but if yours is, and it glorifies God, go ahead, but don't let it become offensive to people.  Plus, different styles of music attract more people to church.  The word and the worship/music is what draws people  in.  That's my $.02  

-Laters
(hope i make sense)
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James Turner

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Re: NOTE MY FOLLOWUP DJ's in contemporary worship?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2004, 03:57:10 am »

Don't know if this is appropriate but if anyone is interested to see what using DJ's and Rap is like in worship then we have 29th Chapter coming back on 24th July in SW london.

(PM me for more info)


James
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Stuie

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Re: NOTE MY FOLLOWUP DJ's in contemporary worship?
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2004, 09:30:41 pm »

As a soundguy and a guitarist im really curious as to how do DJ fit into the mix? Do they use samples and beats and add them in at there discretion. Does the FOH mixer add and reduce whats needed.

Sounds cool when are you Christian DJ come down under?
Most of the people in our church are from nightclubs and our services are alot more lively than most in the area. In our case the DJ would be a real asset.

Sounds unreal, 20 years ago a distorted guitar would be frowned upon but now in the worship common place. I get the EYE from our music director when im running my rig clean (Hey stuie wheres the gunt). Maybe the church can do remixes how cool would that be.

For all you squares who cant handle anything outside of your personal boundaries Wake up, God is doing a new thing. All you Christian DJ spin that disc for the master.

Cheers
Stuie
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nullset

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Re: NOTE MY FOLLOWUP DJ's in contemporary worship?
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2004, 07:19:51 am »

like i said before, if you're interested in christian dance culture/music/etc, check out www.tastyfresh.com

also, www.myxrecords.com , and www.dancechapel.com

ttyl,

--buddy
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Patrick (from Houston)

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Re: NOTE MY FOLLOWUP DJ's in contemporary worship?
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2004, 02:59:32 pm »

Stuie wrote on Mon, 19 July 2004 20:30

As a soundguy and a guitarist im really curious as to how do DJ fit into the mix? Do they use samples and beats and add them in at there discretion. Does the FOH mixer add and reduce whats needed.

Sounds cool when are you Christian DJ come down under?
Most of the people in our church are from nightclubs and our services are alot more lively than most in the area. In our case the DJ would be a real asset.

Sounds unreal, 20 years ago a distorted guitar would be frowned upon but now in the worship common place. I get the EYE from our music director when im running my rig clean (Hey stuie wheres the gunt). Maybe the church can do remixes how cool would that be.

For all you squares who cant handle anything outside of your personal boundaries Wake up, God is doing a new thing. All you Christian DJ spin that disc for the master.

Cheers
Stuie


discussion of philosophies  of what worship is or isn't aside, i'd like to address this both as a DJ who has played in a worship band, and as a sound engineer.  

as a DJ, my view is  that playing samples and using effects to shape the sounds of the samples is little different than playing an electronic keyboard (which plays samples as well since it is not acoustic).  with a keyboard you can chooose the notes in real time, whereas as a Dj what you play is often arranged and rythmed in advance.  as for scratching, i view it as very similar to percussion.  coming from a producer background and with about 12 years of classical music training and music theory, what i play is very musical.  i think of it as a mix between percussion, an 'effects guitar' and a keyboardist.  but then i'm making music, not just going "wicky-wick" to sound cool.  

as a sound tech, i'd say with a DJ, especially one who uses turntablism (scratching) to compress it a lot.  the volume of the scratching is almost always several Db above the original source material volume, and can be disturbing when the sample needs to be heard, and then they begin scratching and the volume jumps 20 Db or so.  also, as a sound guy, i'd recommend keeping in mind when the samples are simply background material, and when they are more integral to the songs.  think like a producer and make your mixes musical and overall appealing, and the particular instruments aren't important as much as that the music we're putting out provides an atmosphere condusive to the congregation worshipping.

that is all, for now at least.
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mcgofy

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Re: There is no Christian Music
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2004, 12:51:04 am »

Wow!

I am considering starting a dj led worship service at our church on saturday nights.  This forum is very informative and interesting!!

Worship is for God?  Hmmmm. That is right, but we are not talking about just worship, we are talking about MUSIC.  As another noted, there is NO christian music, there are only christian lyrics!!  RIGHT. You mean that when we sing well or play great music, God is happier than when we bite?  Oh, God looks at the heart.....Then quality or style couldn't make a difference!!!

Music is simply a tool that WE use to help people "open up" their hearts to God!  Even the secular world realizes this, and takes GREAT contemporary culture reaching music and adds EVIL lyrics!!  That is what makes music so important, and allows these secular musicians to get their messages over so powerfully to this culture.  Christians need to take GREAT, culturly applicable music, which will open up peoples souls to reach their heart, and add GOD'S WORD, which is what changes people.  It is all about getting people to recieve GOD's WORD, and DJ,Hip Hop, Rock, Funk, Classical, Folk, R and B, Country, musics are tools that we can use!

Look, don't let the enemy keep robbing God's people from using every tool out there to reach the lost, and to equip the saints for service.  The "legalists" out there will always hate it, and will always use foolish arguments against it.  
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Vince

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Re: There is no Christian Music
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2004, 11:22:54 am »

mcgofy wrote on Mon, 09 August 2004 23:51

Worship is for God?  Hmmmm. That is right, but we are not talking about just worship, we are talking about MUSIC.  As another noted, there is NO christian music, there are only christian lyrics!!  

I see a lot of confusion when people only look at worship through their own cultural eyes, and only listen for their own cultural language. God is pursuing the heart of a multi-pierced urban goth with the same desire as he is pursuing any suburban Young Life kid. When you do a praise song in drop-D with a MESA triple-rectifier, playing for a group that it speaks to, you are preaching the gospel in Sumaria 2004, in the local language. No more, and no less.

mcgofy wrote on Mon, 09 August 2004 23:51

You mean that when we sing well or play great music, God is happier than when we bite?  Oh, God looks at the heart.....Then quality or style couldn't make a difference!!!

God looks at the heart and the heart alone, but your conclusion doesn't follow. Quality and style without heart for God is at the core of sociatal rot and moral decline. Seen M-TV lately? What they do they do very well, with LOTS of "style"

If you have the skills to "sing well or play great music" with "quality and style" and don't, then where is your heart? Is God Glorified?  Embarassed

If you have the skills to "sing well or play great music" with "quality and style" and you do but it's all about you, then where is your heart? Is God Glorified? Embarassed

Whether you do or don't have the skills to "sing well or play great music" with "quality and style" and maybe you "bite" but you are giving God the best that you've got, then where is your heart? Is God Glorified?    Nod  

Now if you "bite" and there are others with the heart and skills to fill the roll better, you could be in the wrong area of ministry. But in that case it would be about you again and your heart isn't right. Right?  Embarassed  

So I encourage you to give your best to God, with quality and style if you've got it to give, and in a language that the locals can understand and be receptive too. And I'll do my best to do the same ...  Wink

Have peace and be blessed,
Vince <><
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thaddaeus

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Re: NOTE MY FOLLOWUP DJ's in contemporary worship?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2004, 05:58:42 pm »

"scratching" is an art most cannot do well in, it involves both the dj and the sound tech to make it sound listenable for a live or recorded preformance, going back to the David Crowder Band.  In there cd "can you here us?" the track "God of wrath" they used scraches and placed them more in the background, in the same song recorded live on "The Lime CD" the scratches are brought more to the front and it got a little anoying, same scratches, just not mixed very well.  On the djing thing, crowder and Christ Tomlin both uses samples and synths and so forth in their contemporary music, and it sounds great, it gets my youth group worshiping like crazy.  

The problem is, when a Church wants to implement or test somthing out, they either use the best or the worst.  By using the best they then need to spend money on that idea, which after the funding runs out they then get left with the worst, by using the worst, they save money but the idea stips dead in its tracks.  Right now for the past year we have been testing contemporary like music for one of the services.  The musicians we have are getting paid, with the exception of a couple who volunteer.  We arn't about to let someone who cannot play or sing into the band for obvious reasons (it would fail) but we need some of the congregation to step forward and show us their skills.  There are people out there listening that would mostlikely love to play with us and hae the ability, but won't for one reason or another.

If you can find people in the church who can DJ and preform, then let them, not only will it save you money, but could change the minds of some people.  The more people know the actual artists when trying something new, the more likely people will agree upon it....if anything i wrote confuses you i'm sorry, (it partially confused me too) i don't useually write in completethoughts...Smile
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nmiller84

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Re: OOPS Lets steer this more in the right direction!!!
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2004, 04:06:38 pm »

Scott R wrote on Sat, 17 April 2004 10:46

Guys,

Sorry about that.  Either the guidelines were'nt up at this forum when I posted this or I missed them.  In my zest to get it going I kinda got off what's intended.  Maybe I can re-aim this. When David Crowder was here I was busy enough that I didn't notice how they were implementing everything into the system.  Maybe somebody's seen if they're coming out of a submixer or running units directly into a DI.

Thanks!


If I remeber correctly when DCB was at my church the DJ had his own sub mixer and we just got the main outs.  Hope that answers it.

-Nathan
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yam4000vca Jim Gould

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Re: NOTE MY FOLLOWUP DJ's in contemporary worship?
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2004, 05:19:43 pm »

Well I am not so sure that God has anything against scratching. I do, as I persoanlly do not care for it, but that is me. I will say that it takes a talent to do it well. It takes talent to do anything well though. Some people do not mix well but they still go at it.
There are many types of what most people call Christian music.
I have had the pleasure to mix live Phil Keagy with the Glass Harp. Now some may say that the music is not Christian music per se but it does have a positive message.  It may not be for every type of church but it is what it is and I call it good music no matter what some may want to call it.
To speak to another point that was in this thread I see no problem with not letting people who are truly players on the platform to play. In my design and consulting work it has been made a lot harder and more expensive because there were a lot of people on the platform that as far as thier musical addition to the presentation did not belong there. They made the system need more channels and more monitors usually for dubios results.
If a pastor gave a terrible sermon and was not up to the job they would probably not be around long as well. Same thing applies to the players in my view.
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