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[Matthew Graves (Jr)]

I've just upgraded my console to a Midas Venice 320 (very stoked about this beautiful console). I am running 4 monitor mixes from FOH and 2 fx (rev & Delay) I would like to run my subs on an aux without losing any fx or monitors. Can I run the subs from the sub groups and only assign appropriate signals to that sub group? Kick drum, bass, keys maybe...so on and so forth. Any suggestion would be most helpful.

[DavidTurner]

Yes - some prefer it that way.

I've just upgraded my console to a Midas Venice 320 (very stoked about this beautiful console). I am running 4 monitor mixes from FOH and 2 fx (rev & Delay) I would like to run my subs on an aux without losing any fx or monitors. Can I run the subs from the sub groups and only assign appropriate signals to that sub group? Kick drum, bass, keys maybe...so on and so forth. Any suggestion would be most helpful.

[Mark Oakley]

The problem with this idea is that your Sub levels will purely be based on the Post fade level. If you want to send lots of kick, a little bass guitar, and a medium amount of floor-tom to the subs, this method won't work. I'd "mult" one of the effects sends, especially if you are using two effects from the same source (like reverb and delay on vocals). Or get a board with more aux sends.

-Mark

[Duncan McLennan]

Absolutely. In theory that's actually the more 'correct' way to do it, because the phase/amplitude coherence through the crossover is more accurate if you're not messing with the level of particular instruments.

That said, being able to have lots of kick in the subs, and just a little floor tom is nice.

I'd try it both ways and see what you prefer. But the short answer is 'yes'. It will work.

[Matthew Graves (Jr)]

The problem with this idea is that your Sub levels will purely be based on the Post fade level. If you want to send lots of kick, a little bass guitar, and a medium amount of floor-tom to the subs, this method won't work. I'd "mult" one of the effects sends, especially if you are using two effects from the same source (like reverb and delay on vocals). Or get a board with more aux sends.

-Mark

But if the entire mix is assigned to L/R and the sub group is just used for lower frequency signals (kick, bass ect..ect) then the levels would then be adjusted from the channels.. I don't see why it wouldn't work. As for getting another board with more Aux sends.... no way, not yet, I just bought this beauty. A Midas in my arsenal looks and sounds great..

[Matthew Graves (Jr)]

But if the entire mix is assigned to L/R and the sub group is just used for lower frequency signals (kick, bass ect..ect) then the levels would then be adjusted from the channels.. I don't see why it wouldn't work. As for getting another board with more Aux sends.... no way, not yet, I just bought this beauty. A Midas in my arsenal looks and sounds great..

and I could easily assign those to the sub groups that are driving the subs.. I think I may try it that way and see how it works. Yes, I wish I had 10 aux sends but I have what I have. 

[Matthew Graves (Jr)]

Absolutely. In theory that's actually the more 'correct' way to do it, because the phase/amplitude coherence through the crossover is more accurate if you're not messing with the level of particular instruments.

That said, being able to have lots of kick in the subs, and just a little floor tom is nice.

I'd try it both ways and see what you prefer. But the short answer is 'yes'. It will work.

No crossover, all powered speakers. I would have to run all cabinets at full range and use the roll off on each channel as the "x-over" so to speak. Leave the lower frequency signal channels flat with some channel eq'ing of course and no low cut of course.. I wonder if this is why they have the speaker management system from DBX...hmmm... I shall do some reading now... with one solution almost solved another arises... I love this job!! So challenging 

[Duncan McLennan]

No crossover, all powered speakers. I would have to run all cabinets at full range and use the roll off on each channel as the "x-over" so to speak. Leave the lower frequency signal channels flat with some channel eq'ing of course and no low cut of course.. I wonder if this is why they have the speaker management system from DBX...hmmm... I shall do some reading now... with one solution almost solved another arises... I love this job!! So challenging 

Even though you don't have a crossover, you do have a crossover. There is surely a LPF on the top of the range of your powered sub, and you've likely got the HPF engaged on your powered tops. So although you don't have a crossover per say, in an acoustic respect, you actually still have a crossover. A frequency at which the output of the tops exceeds the subs at the same frequency (or vice versa).

Using the bus method keeps the levels equal in both bandpasses, which keeps the crossover frequency where it was designed to be, and helps maintain better phase coherence.

[Matthew Graves (Jr)]

Even though you don't have a crossover, you do have a crossover. There is surely a LPF on the top of the range of your powered sub, and you've likely got the HPF engaged on your powered tops. So although you don't have a crossover per say, in an acoustic respect, you actually still have a crossover. A frequency at which the output of the tops exceeds the subs at the same frequency (or vice versa).

Using the bus method keeps the levels equal in both bandpasses, which keeps the crossover frequency where it was designed to be, and helps maintain better phase coherence.

In retrospect, I have all those engaged and am using them as "crossovers" actually... I full range input into the sub QSC HPR 181i x-over out at 100Hz to my tops Mackie SA1232z's. This leads me to another question then.. if I put the subs on the sub group mix and run the tops full range how am I going to cross over the tops? Would I then need to run into an actual x-over...well, now that I've typed this out they really wouldn't "see" anything lower then 100Hz if in fact I assigned the appropriate signals to the appropriate "sub" subgroup then... does that sound about right?

[Tim Weaver]

In retrospect, I have all those engaged and am using them as "crossovers" actually... I full range input into the sub QSC HPR 181i x-over out at 100Hz to my tops Mackie SA1232z's. This leads me to another question then.. if I put the subs on the sub group mix and run the tops full range how am I going to cross over the tops? Would I then need to run into an actual x-over...well, now that I've typed this out they really wouldn't "see" anything lower then 100Hz if in fact I assigned the appropriate signals to the appropriate "sub" subgroup then... does that sound about right?

You probably won't need a crossover for the tops. Running a FULL range PA and then augmenting that FULL range PA with some extra sub power derived from a different send (a buss in your case) is a perfectly acceptable and sometimes preferred way to setup a system.

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