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Author Topic: Mixer for house system in small bar  (Read 6860 times)

Jon Ross

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Mixer for house system in small bar
« on: October 18, 2011, 05:56:07 AM »

I'm looking for a mixer/preamp for a small bar install. They are currently using a home stereo receiver and it is a sound nightmare. They have 4 Alesis passive studio monitors and 4 Polk ceiling speakers which is fine for the space for now. I plan to have them purchase a couple power amps that can power the speakers properly without distorting like the receiver does but I need advice on what to use to replace the preamp section of the receiver.
Needed inputs are:
1. RCA inputs for XM Radio
2. RCA inputs from Direct TV box for sports games
I'd also like to add a 3rd set of RCA jacks for an ipod hookup, and I would like to be able to have inputs from the matrix out of the Allen Heath GL2400 used by bands on Fri and Sat nights. The bar has 2 rooms one with the actual bar and the other has a stage and tables to sit down. Openings were made in the brick wall separating the two rooms but the sound doesn't really cross the opening. The PA system has been separate from the "house system" but it would be nice if they could work together as fills at a low volume.
I think the biggest requirements are that it be simple to use and not too expensive. Pretty much just needs to have a few source selections and a volume control. Budget is probably a couple hundred dollars and getting something used would be great.
I don't have much experience in selecting gear for install use and I'd appreciate any help on what to tell them to buy.
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Lee Douglas

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Re: Mixer for house system in small bar
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2011, 10:17:26 AM »

They are currently using a home stereo receiver and it is a sound nightmare. They have 4 Alesis passive studio monitors and 4 Polk ceiling speakers which is fine for the space for now. I plan to have them purchase a couple power amps that can power the speakers properly without distorting like the receiver does...

Eight speakers of unknown impedance on one home stereo?  What impedance is being presented to the amplifier?  I would address this issue first.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 10:23:40 AM by Lee Douglas »
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Jon Ross

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Re: Mixer for house system in small bar
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2011, 08:50:58 PM »

Eight speakers of unknown impedance on one home stereo?  What impedance is being presented to the amplifier?  I would address this issue first.
The reciever is being replaced by a couple of QSC amps. I just need advice on what to use to control the volume and switch sources. Something similar to this:
http://www.samash.com/p/Gemini_PA7000%20Professional%20Line%20Preamp%20and%20Input%20Switcher_-49997196?cm_mmc=Froogle-_-Routers-_-PA7000%20Professional%20Line%20Preamp%20and%20Input%20Switcher-_-GPA7000XX
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Brad Weber

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Re: Mixer for house system in small bar
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2011, 09:57:59 PM »

It might be nice to have fills in the rear room if you could properly delay, EQ and limit the signal for the 'fills' and also maybe changed out the speakers to something intended for that type of application, otherwise it is probably best to leave the systems separate.

Some basic questions.  How do the four studio monitors and four ceiling speakers relate to the two rooms?  Are the systems run mono or stereo?  Is the goal to always have the same source going to both rooms or to potentially be able to select different sources to each room?  Are you thinking switching between sources and then controlling the output level of the switcher, which means the levels potentially changing every time you switch between sources, or controlling the levels of the individual sources?

Depending on the answers to some of those these may be too simple but something like http://www.rdlnet.com/product.php?page=543 or http://www.kramerelectronics.com/products/model.asp?pid=132&sf=34 are probably available within the budget and are about as simple as you can get.  If you need two zones or want to adjust the level for the sources then you may have to go outside your budget for anything of decent quality.
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Lee Douglas

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Re: Mixer for house system in small bar
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2011, 10:03:25 PM »

Given the couple hundred buck cap, I'd consider this:

http://www.alesis.com/imultimix9r#1

iPod interface built in, two stereo channels (one is line/ipod) and five mic/line inputs for $199.  Don't walk, run from the Gemini.  There are better choices than the Alesis but you should do alright for the money.
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Jon Ross

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Re: Mixer for house system in small bar
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2011, 10:48:11 PM »

The two systems have been kept separate as of now. The bar room has a couple JBL control 28's as fills but they got fried. They need new woofers and crossovers that total $225. Thats money that could be used to fix the terrible house system. I know it seems odd when I say that the sound doesn't cross the wall to the other room but the only way the patrons in the bar room can hear the band is through the fills. They sound fine without delay because you can't hear the mains. The "band" room is set sound wise and would never need fills at the back.

No need to have a separate volume control on the different sources. The bartenders constantly turn up and down the volume depending on whether they like the song playing anyway.

The two rooms also would not ever need to have different sources playing. The ability to change the volume to the different zones would be a plus but not absolutely needed.

Simplicity is the key for this I think. I don't want them calling me at all hours because they can't figure out how to change a source or even turn it on. There's a different bartender every day of the week so someone is bond to get caught up by the technological upgrade.
Is there something simpler than the Alesis?
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Lee Douglas

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Re: Mixer for house system in small bar
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2011, 09:42:07 AM »

Is there something simpler than the Alesis?

Is doesn't get much simpler than the RDL Brad recommnded above:

http://www.rdlnet.com/product.php?page=543

Around $150, dead simple and, as with most RDL products, damn near bullet proof.  Add an ipod dock and you're good to go. 

I would suggest that with a little training and a set of simple instructions laminated at the mixer, you could get a mixer that is much more verstile.  You're going to need the additional control, particularly when you start bringing FOH matrixes into the system.
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Mike Pyle

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Re: Mixer for house system in small bar
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2011, 10:31:07 AM »

ART MX622 (previously the ART 416) should cover your needs. 3 stereo channels with RCA input, 3 mono channels with XLRs, high/low eq, effects loop. These are distributed and supported by Yorkville.

http://www.artproaudio.com/products.asp?id=153&cat=15&type=89
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Scott Carneval

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Re: Mixer for house system in small bar
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2011, 01:35:14 PM »

I'm looking for a mixer/preamp for a small bar install. They are currently using a home stereo receiver and it is a sound nightmare. They have 4 Alesis passive studio monitors and 4 Polk ceiling speakers which is fine for the space for now. I plan to have them purchase a couple power amps that can power the speakers properly without distorting like the receiver does but I need advice on what to use to replace the preamp section of the receiver.
Needed inputs are:
1. RCA inputs for XM Radio
2. RCA inputs from Direct TV box for sports games
I'd also like to add a 3rd set of RCA jacks for an ipod hookup, and I would like to be able to have inputs from the matrix out of the Allen Heath GL2400 used by bands on Fri and Sat nights. The bar has 2 rooms one with the actual bar and the other has a stage and tables to sit down. Openings were made in the brick wall separating the two rooms but the sound doesn't really cross the opening. The PA system has been separate from the "house system" but it would be nice if they could work together as fills at a low volume.
I think the biggest requirements are that it be simple to use and not too expensive. Pretty much just needs to have a few source selections and a volume control. Budget is probably a couple hundred dollars and getting something used would be great.
I don't have much experience in selecting gear for install use and I'd appreciate any help on what to tell them to buy.

It kind of blows your budget out of the water, but the DBX ZonePro 640 does everything you mentioned, and it has built in EQ, Limiting, and Xover to protect the speakers.  It has 4 RCA inputs for DTV, iPod, etc. and two XLR inputs for the band mix.  You're looking at close to a grand though. 

http://www.dbxpro.com/640/index.php
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chuck clark

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Re: Mixer for house system in small bar
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2011, 06:47:47 PM »

[1. RCA inputs for XM Radio
2. RCA inputs from Direct TV box for sports games
I'd also like to add a 3rd set of RCA jacks for an ipod hookup, and I would like to be able to have inputs from the matrix out of the Allen Heath GL2400 used by bands on Fri and Sat nights. The bar has 2 rooms one with the actual bar and the other has a stage and tables to sit down. Openings were made in the brick wall separating the two rooms but the sound doesn't really cross the opening. The PA system has been separate from the "house system" but it would be nice if they could work together as fills at a low volume.
I think the biggest requirements are that it be simple to use and not too expensive. Pretty much just needs to have a few source selections and a volume control. Budget is probably a couple hundred dollars

Jon, I hate to be the one to point this out, but when you ask the question: What has several RCA inputs plus
 a mic input or two and volume control on the inputs and a master output volume and is designed for NON-technical folks? The answer: Get a DJ mixer!!! HAHAHA!
There are tons of 'em, heck even the nearest Rat Shack one will "get r done"!!! ARARAR!
Have a great day-
Chuck
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Re: Mixer for house system in small bar
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2011, 06:47:47 PM »


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