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[Jason Phair]

The first time you have a promoter who's willing to pay to soundcheck all the bands, you'll wish you'd gone digital.  When you have a popular band back on a regular basis, you'll wish you could call up their file.

It's a 500 seater.  Go analog.

[ThomasA(lbenberger)]

hi all!

thank you for your replies, they were most helpful!

it seems to me, analog is always accepted - even if not preferred - given that everything is in good working condition.

same goes for m7cl. many people are carrying showfiles which is an asset for the console. how long it will remain the most common denominator is questionable, lots of competition in its market.

no votes for pm5d (without rh) over m7cl.

so we are down to m7cl or analog.

some details on what the console will be used:

usual shows are headliner + one or two support acts, only one support act soundchecking. 40 channels usually fit headliner + most of support acts channels, so recallability is nice but not the most important feature to consider.

whether a given digital or analog board looses value over the next few years is not part of the equation. the board has to run as long as it can, resale value is insignificant.

we do not have any regular bands visiting our club. there is no demand for recalling past shows of a certain act.

everybody knows analog, not everybody knows every digital desk. console layouts change rapidly on digital platforms. 5 years ago, not everybody knew a m7cl. our current desk was installed 13 years ago. if our new console stays just half as long, a digital board could easily become outdated to such an extent, that (younger) bandtechs don't know or accept it anymore. this is very unlikely to happen for an analog foh.

so even while giving up the convinience of recallability and the additional income from selling a few more tickets due to less space taken up by the digital surface, i tend to decide on an analog desk again.

since any of the heritages and also the spectra T are priced much higher than a mh2, i guess there is no alternative to the soundcraft, or can you think of something else at its price point? 10aux and 4-band semi-parametric eq minimum, vcas a plus.

thanks for all your input,

best regards, thomas

[Doug Fowler]

hi all!



so we are down to m7cl or analog.

From a strictly pragmatic view, I would get the M7 and not look back.  Sell the analog outboard and interconnect and investigate an AES to analog outboard device. A former member (wish you would come back Trip ;-) reported using AES out of an M7 into a MAXXBASS BCL and claimed it was a significant improvement.   I imagine you could find good DA conversion for quite a bit less than the BCL, since much of that cost is the compressor and MAXXBASS section.

When you're ready to upgrade later, move the M7 to monitors.

[Dustin Reynolds]

+1

From a strictly pragmatic view, I would get the M7 and not look back.  Sell the analog outboard and interconnect and investigate an AES to analog outboard device. A former member (wish you would come back Trip ;-) reported using AES out of an M7 into a MAXXBASS BCL and claimed it was a significant improvement.   I imagine you could find good DA conversion for quite a bit less than the BCL, since much of that cost is the compressor and MAXXBASS section.

When you're ready to upgrade later, move the M7 to monitors.

[David Hoover]

+1

I would much rather have the M7CL even though the preamps don't sound quite as good as a comparative analogue.  For your price range it will serve well for many many years.  One of my favorite sound systems we have uses an M7CL-48.  It's good enough to get a pretty sick mix on there.  A little muddy compared to other pre amps I have to admit though; but great non the less.  You just can't put a price on having 2 dynamics on each channel if nothing else you like about digital.  You will probably find a use quickly for most of the 16 auxes too...

[Andrew Makinson]

no votes for pm5d (without rh) over m7cl.

so we are down to m7cl or analog.

My venue has a pm5d (without RH).  Buying one new would be a terrible choice.  We also have an M7 which I think will serve you much better.

I love high end analogue with outboard, and the first time I had to mix on an M7 I hated it and kept wishing I had analogue.  Keep in mind that was 4 years ago and I had no house tech to assist me. 

If you think you'll need a lot of outboard and if you could ever use more than 10 auxes you should get the M7cl-48.

[Tom Hester]

hi all!

our club is about to replace its current foh equipment.

we have a crest gtx 40ch installed, dbx 3231 graph eqs and some mid-level outboard (tc, yamaha, dbx)

for all you touring guys: if you walk into a 500-capacity live club with your pop/rock/indie band, would you rather see an analog foh or a digital one? monitoring is done from foh, usually 4-5 sends.

choices for analog: is there anything else in the class of an mh2 (40ch.) price/performance-wise? sideracks with dbx eqs, comps, gates and t.c. and yamaha fx

choices for digital: yamaha only - m7cl48 or pm5d. 5dRH definitely out of our budget.

thanks for your input!

cheers, thomas

I would definitely go M7 over a MH2. If you are talking about a H3k...thats different, but M7 vs MH2... no brainer, M7.

If a band is carrying a FOH guy, he should have no problem with an M7, and if not its easy to teach someone (about the same amount of time it would take to show someone how things are routed on a analog console)

.... the kind of guy who couldn't figure out a M7, probably would have trouble with anything.

[David Hoover]

I would definitely go M7 over a MH2. If you are talking about a H3k...thats different, but M7 vs MH2... no brainer, M7.

If a band is carrying a FOH guy, he should have no problem with an M7, and if not its easy to teach someone (about the same amount of time it would take to show someone how things are routed on a analog console)

.... the kind of guy who couldn't figure out a M7, probably would have trouble with anything.

Agreed.  I have volunteers who understand the M7 as fast as an analogue board when I tell them it's the same just in a different spot...THE SCREEN.  They quickly go to town.  I've found the Venue is easy for people as well; but it takes for ever to learn where the knobs are without looking on the Venue.  Not sure why I said that we're not talking about a Venue oh well 

[Tim McCulloch]

so even while giving up the convinience of recallability and the additional income from selling a few more tickets due to less space taken up by the digital surface, i tend to decide on an analog desk again.

best regards, thomas

everybody accepts analog (at this level). if we need to get a rental console in

If the goal is to have a desk that you can dial up a fast FOH mix on and finesse a limited amount of input insert and EFX processing, analog is the hands down winner.

If the goal is to have a desk that permits the operator to have extensive dynamic control of inputs, groups and outputs; EFX "just like on the record", and to have maximal creative control, digital wins.

Three years ago I had to give M7 lessons to support act BEs, but in the last year or so I'm hard pressed to think of any BE that needed more than navigational assistance on either an M7 or Venue console.  Hell, these days the support BEs are giving me Venue lessons.  That's cool.

The thing that's important is to have a mixer that fits the rest of the rig and "level" of establishment.  Indirectly that might be why nobody bit off on a PM5D.

The APB Pro Desk 8 might fit the bill and the Spectra would be perfect, and I think they would deliver lasting value, i.e. they'd just keep working.

What's your budget for new/additional outboard?

[ThomasA(lbenberger)]

so we got another few votes for a m7cl. that's most helpful after i laid out my preference for analog...  oh whatever.

From a strictly pragmatic view, I would get the M7 and not look back.  Sell the analog outboard and interconnect and (...)

hi doug. what pragmatic view? less hassle for getting a fully working system?

investigate an AES to analog outboard device. A former member (wish you would come back Trip ;-) reported using AES out of an M7 into a MAXXBASS BCL and claimed it was a significant improvement.   I imagine you could find good DA conversion for quite a bit less than the BCL, since much of that cost is the compressor and MAXXBASS section.

i read and know about these experiments, also the ones with external clocking.

it's a 500cap indie-rock venue with a tight budget. i'm afraid none of this will happen.

When you're ready to upgrade later, move the M7 to monitors.

for the last 13 years we have had a separate monitor mix only TWICE. all the other shows did monitors from foh. however, i would see it as a nice upgrade for the venue, if the production cost of a separate monitor position could be covered. then we would need another console, but there is no indication that this will happen in the near future, or that there will be a comparable budget to get another (better) foh console then.

nothing to think about right now.

I would definitely go M7 over a MH2. If you are talking about a H3k...thats different, but M7 vs MH2... no brainer, M7.

why? to me, it is not a no-brainer. what does the h3000 offer you - at this level! 500cap rock club - that an mh2 doesn't?

The thing that's important is to have a mixer that fits the rest of the rig and "level" of establishment.  Indirectly that might be why nobody bit off on a PM5D.

sorry, i don't see the connection here. please explain. thanks.

The APB Pro Desk 8 might fit the bill and the Spectra would be perfect, and I think they would deliver lasting value, i.e. they'd just keep working.

any desk without at least 4 semi-parametric eq bands per channel is not rider-friendly enough for our needs. so the pro desk and the little spectra are out of the equation unfortunately. we will get pricing on the large spectra when it's time, but i'm afraid we will not be able to afford it.

thanks again,

th

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