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[Brad Weber]

Glad to hear from an EVI user.  I am generally in favor of 12s over 15s for the reason you mentioned (as well as size and weight).  I'd rather add a sub later if really needed and can also take some advantage of the dbx DriveRack unit to get a little more bass in the interim.

The tradeoff may be more low frequency output but less overall output.  With any speaker because it is either increasing the level seen by the speaker at certain frequencies or reducing the output level at others, any equalization may reduce the maximum overall output.  Increasing the low frequency levels also means increasing the output where the speaker has very little pattern control, potentially increasing the risk of feedback.

As far as adding a subwoofer, the reduced low frequency response of the EVI-12 extends up to 300-350Hz, the 200-250Hz response is 8dB or so below that at 700Hz and 2kHz, so a subwoofer would typically not address the full range of the reduced response.

Basically, an EVI-12 or EVI-15 appear in many ways to potentially be a good fit for this application, however they are much more geared toward speech reproduction applications and might take some significant equalization in order to get a desired response for music.  That in turn may relate to a reduced maximum overall output.  That may be completely acceptable in this application but just wanted you to be aware of it.

[Richard Carter]

The tradeoff may be more low frequency output but less overall output.  With any speaker because it is either increasing the level seen by the speaker at certain frequencies or reducing the output level at others, any equalization may reduce the maximum overall output.  Increasing the low frequency levels also means increasing the output where the speaker has very little pattern control, potentially increasing the risk of feedback.

As far as adding a subwoofer, the reduced low frequency response of the EVI-12 extends up to 300-350Hz, the 200-250Hz response is 8dB or so below that at 700Hz and 2kHz, so a subwoofer would typically not address the full range of the reduced response.

Thanks for the comments - this is not a high volume application so I am not too worried about feedback and overall volume level but it is a good reminder that there are always tradeoffs.

What I find interesting is that a number of rooms I have worked with of about this size is that they all exhibit a lot of noticeable reverb in the 100-400hz range.  Of course, this is where a lot of the vocal energy is anyway but I find the EQ for these rooms tends to take out anywhere from 3 to 8db to reduce the "echo" and as little as a 1db adjustment can make noticeable diffences.  So the response of the speaker may actually be of some help.

I think overall that the single speaker would be an improvement over what they have now.

[Ryan M. Fluharty]

Thanks for the comments - this is not a high volume application so I am not too worried about feedback and overall volume level but it is a good reminder that there are always tradeoffs.

What I find interesting is that a number of rooms I have worked with of about this size is that they all exhibit a lot of noticeable reverb in the 100-400hz range.  Of course, this is where a lot of the vocal energy is anyway but I find the EQ for these rooms tends to take out anywhere from 3 to 8db to reduce the "echo" and as little as a 1db adjustment can make noticeable diffences.  So the response of the speaker may actually be of some help.

I think overall that the single speaker would be an improvement over what they have now.

We had to actually cut some 100hz from our EVI-12s because it was the fundamental feedback frequency for our wireless mics.

The other thing to take into consideration, as someone mentioned before, is aesthetics.  The evi series speakers are quite large and bulky compared to traditional 12" or 15" boxes.  The EVI-12 measures 21.81"h  X 14.02"w X 27.52"d.  Needless to say, its a hard speaker to incorporate into the design of a room.  We got ours without a finish (I'm assuming straight from EV) so the natural wood grain of the speaker attempts to blend it in next to the wood grain of the ceiling.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

We had to actually cut some 100hz from our EVI-12s because it was the fundamental feedback frequency for our wireless mics.

Flown speakers seem to always set up a good, strong standing wave relative to the height of the hang and the vertical dimension of the physical space.  I'm not up on all the scientific why's and wherefore's, but when I look  here ( http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-waves.htm ) and convert cm to feet ( http://www.ask.com/web?q=convert+343.42+centimeters+to+feet&qsrc=8&o=10473&l=dir ) I'll bet dollars to donuts that you can predict the trouble frequency fairly closely by simple physical measurement, then notch out the offending frequency with a suitably narrow filter.

Lotsa fun.......

Edit:


The wavelength calculator also gives the time duration of the wave cycle in msec which leads me to wonder about the effect of delay on the standing wave.

Even more fun......

[Stu McDoniel]

I am replacing speakers in a small, 150 capacity, traditional chuch which is 42ft wide and 60ft deep from the altar rail to the back wall.  It has a peaked ceiling about 22ft high front to back.  The altar area adds another 18ft of depth.

I am debating between a single EV EVI-12 in the center at the altar front about 18ft up versus something like a pair of Yamaha IF2112/AS's about 8ft in from the side walls at the altar front and about 15ft up (these are run as mono, not stereo).

Most of the service is spoken word with a small choir but they are trying to expand their music program.

I believe the single EV speaker would give better overall vocal clarity but I believe the dual speakers would give a better sound stage for music.  Note that both of these speakers have asymmetric horns.

I am interested in opinions about the single vs dual speaker approach as well as any opinions on the EV vs Yamaha speakers.

Thanks.

The single point source idea of one speaker will work out fine with the proper loudspeaker...
Remember the Altec A7 stub cabs with an 811 horn as a single point source?
I am NOT recommending the Altec gear for your setup here but being reminiscent.
Looking at the size of that room though I would think about side fill delayed properly.
The reason I recommend side fill is so the system can cover farther back in the room and the system can be at lower volume then would be with a single loudspeaker at the front of the room.
With a single loudspeaker at the front of the room you are going to have it a bit hot for the people
in the front of the room to cover the rear of the room...follow?

[Jean-Pierre Coetzee]

The single point source idea of one speaker will work out fine with the proper loudspeaker...
Remember the Altec A7 stub cabs with an 811 horn as a single point source?
I am NOT recommending the Altec gear for your setup here but being reminiscent.
Looking at the size of that room though I would think about side fill delayed properly.
The reason I recommend side fill is so the system can cover farther back in the room and the system can be at lower volume then would be with a single loudspeaker at the front of the room.
With a single loudspeaker at the front of the room you are going to have it a bit hot for the people
in the front of the room to cover the rear of the room...follow?

Having a sound source next to you but the actual person in front of you can cause listening fatigue. It's generally better to have the sound source in front and with flown speakers it is not difficult to get nearly even coverage from a room. Not a bad idea but in a sanctuary can cause people to fall asleep since their mind can't make sense of the mixed signals they are getting as to the position of the speaker.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Having a sound source next to you but the actual person in front of you can cause listening fatigue. It's generally better to have the sound source in front and with flown speakers it is not difficult to get nearly even coverage from a room. Not a bad idea but in a sanctuary can cause people to fall asleep since their mind can't make sense of the mixed signals they are getting as to the position of the speaker.

I'm in agreement with the highlighted statement.  Brad Weber has pointed out in other threads that one of the primary advantages of flying a center speaker/cluster is that it can even out the average distance to the listeners.  In a space of the dimensions in the OP, a properly flown speaker will very likely have no more than a 4-6dB difference in SPL from front to back and that should be acceptable for the stated program material.  If any rear delay fill is needed it would be best to fly that as well and keep it in line with the front speaker(s).

As to the part about people falling asleep......

Maybe have coffee in the Fellowship Hall BEFORE the service?

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