Topic: PKN 3PHASE-40K (Read 22167 times)

Andre Spur · « **on:** September 19, 2011, 04:30:10 AM »

New Three Phase 40000Watts amplifier from PKN Controls

http://www.pknc.com/3phase_eng.html

How good would be the low frequency response due to the 3 phase powering?
Anybody has ever seen similar equipment?

ASP.

Nathan Salt · « **Reply #1 on:** September 19, 2011, 09:06:18 AM »

Wow that is seriously beefcake

Andre Spur · « **Reply #2 on:** September 19, 2011, 10:50:14 AM »

Quote from: Nathan Salt on September 19, 2011, 09:06:18 AM

Wow that is seriously beefcake

Looks the most powerful professional amplifier ever. Will replaces lots of bridged amps...
I prefer the maximum power point of 2.6R stated instead of common 2R ratings.

More Voltage More Headroom

Daniel Goodnow · « **Reply #3 on:** September 19, 2011, 02:23:30 PM »

And it's 1RU? This just seems unreal.

paul bell · « **Reply #4 on:** September 19, 2011, 08:28:29 PM »

It's nice but it doesn't have the panache that the Crown Belchfire Series BF-6000SUX did. It had the exclusive cross fire mono mode and the "run like crazy" panel indicator.

Ricky Lighthall · « **Reply #5 on:** September 19, 2011, 08:56:37 PM »

Quote from: paul bell on September 19, 2011, 08:28:29 PM

It's nice but it doesn't have the panache that the Crown Belchfire Series BF-6000SUX did. It had the exclusive cross fire mono mode and the "run like crazy" panel indicator.

...and it doesn't run off LP gas.

Blake Courtney · « **Reply #6 on:** September 19, 2011, 11:13:13 PM »

Quote from: Ricky Lighthall on September 19, 2011, 08:56:37 PM

...and it doesn't run off LP gas.

Ok. Is a Joke?

I had a hard time believing the Specs on the PowerSoft stuff but having seen them in action...

But seriously 4x10kw? What are you going to plug it into?

Even if it works would you really want that much power or want to have one amp running that many boxes?

Blake

Tim McCulloch · « **Reply #7 on:** September 20, 2011, 01:21:09 AM »

Quote from: Blake Courtney on September 19, 2011, 11:13:13 PM

Ok. Is a Joke?

I had a hard time believing the Specs on the PowerSoft stuff but having seen them in action...

But seriously 4x10kw? What are you going to plug it into?

Even if it works would you really want that much power or want to have one amp running that many boxes?

Blake

You'd plug it into 3 phase 400v 45-65Hz, no neutral. It draws 25 amps. It looks like you can feed it anything from 208v to 480v. The claim it will stay running (no indication of performance hit) if you drop a phase leg.

As to what you'd power with it... we currently power our VerTec rigs with original I-Techs, 6000s on the 4889, and we divide the hang into 2 or 3 sections with each section being 2, 3 or 4 speakers in parallel. We could put the entire SL or SR amps (including sub amps) in a single rack, compared to the 3-4 racks per side now. In the real world that means 2 amp racks in the truck pack, rather than 2 rows of amp racks and makes the truck 900# lighter.

For a regional provider the accumulation of size & weight savings can mean fewer trucks or smaller rental trucks that don't require CDL drivers. Transportation costs are a big chunk of show-related expenses and saving money there is a Very Good Thing.

I realize the channel density makes you nervous - losing one amp could have serious consequences - but at the level of operation these are marketed to, carrying spares is a given. I suppose they're not for everybody. It might be amusing to see a bar owner's face when asked where the 440v power is...

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

ps. Yes, the Belchfire is a joke.
pps. One of the shortcomings of the PKN amp is a 2v. input sensitivity. Needs more options, perhaps that's part of the DSP add-in.

Jay Barracato · « **Reply #8 on:** September 20, 2011, 06:26:47 AM »

Quote from: Tim McCulloch on September 20, 2011, 01:21:09 AM

You'd plug it into 3 phase 400v 45-65Hz, no neutral. It draws 25 amps. It looks like you can feed it anything from 208v to 480v. The claim it will stay running (no indication of performance hit) if you drop a phase leg.

As to what you'd power with it... we currently power our VerTec rigs with original I-Techs, 6000s on the 4889, and we divide the hang into 2 or 3 sections with each section being 2, 3 or 4 speakers in parallel. We could put the entire SL or SR amps (including sub amps) in a single rack, compared to the 3-4 racks per side now. In the real world that means 2 amp racks in the truck pack, rather than 2 rows of amp racks and makes the truck 900# lighter.

For a regional provider the accumulation of size & weight savings can mean fewer trucks or smaller rental trucks that don't require CDL drivers. Transportation costs are a big chunk of show-related expenses and saving money there is a Very Good Thing.

I realize the channel density makes you nervous - losing one amp could have serious consequences - but at the level of operation these are marketed to, carrying spares is a given. I suppose they're not for everybody. It might be amusing to see a bar owner's face when asked where the 440v power is...

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

ps. Yes, the Belchfire is a joke.
pps. One of the shortcomings of the PKN amp is a 2v. input sensitivity. Needs more options, perhaps that's part of the DSP add-in.

While I have never been it a big fan of bridging, it was once pointed out to me that if an amp has enough to push 4 parallel boxes, there is an enormous saving (money and weight) in copper.

Brad Weber · « **Reply #9 on:** September 20, 2011, 08:13:35 AM »

Quote from: Andre Spur on September 19, 2011, 04:30:10 AM

New Three Phase 40000Watts amplifier from PKN Controls

http://www.pknc.com/3phase_eng.html

Not available until a projected Q1/2012. No apparent regulatory agency listings. Non-standard power connector and no identification of related power cord termination. No identification of how the power ratings specified were obtained or what they represent (and since the amps apparently won't be available for some time, if they are based on predictions, prototypes or production units). These may turn out to be an interesting option for some applications but what is presented seems more a concept.

I'm a little surprised that given some of the seemingly likely applications there seems to be no AES3 or networked audio input options. I'm also curious as to what the DSP option noted actually is and does, there are no apparent slots for a user installed card so it would seem to be an internal module.

Tim, the specifications note an input sensitivity of 0.775VRMS/0dBu or 2VRMS/+8dBu selected from the menu, however they don't note a maximum input level.

Peter PAPP · « **Reply #10 on:** September 20, 2011, 11:30:48 AM »

Quote from: Brad Weber on September 20, 2011, 08:13:35 AM

Not available until a projected Q1/2012. No apparent regulatory agency listings. Non-standard power connector and no identification of related power cord termination. No identification of how the power ratings specified were obtained or what they represent (and since the amps apparently won't be available for some time, if they are based on predictions, prototypes or production units). These may turn out to be an interesting option for some applications but what is presented seems more a concept.

I'm a little surprised that given some of the seemingly likely applications there seems to be no AES3 or networked audio input options. I'm also curious as to what the DSP option noted actually is and does, there are no apparent slots for a user installed card so it would seem to be an internal module.

Tim, the specifications note an input sensitivity of 0.775VRMS/0dBu or 2VRMS/+8dBu selected from the menu, however they don't note a maximum input level.

Dear Sirs,

The power connector of PKN 3PHASE series is a modified MIL-DTL-C5015 standard circular, hermetic metal part. Similars used on lighting equipments and few speakers. May it will not pass CE regulatory approvals without problems which are under way but we will see.. We have also a second optional connector possibility but that would be more costly.
About the worries of reliability: the 40K version has doubled 20K modules (booth PSU+Endstages) also the built-in DSP has parallel processing and twin internal powering. The internal PSU modules which are segmented into parallel sections too have separated fusing per section so in case of one module fault (or a missing power line ;-) the unit remains operational.
Our new power conversion technology with these levels of compactness and power density was not really present in commercial/professional equipments. It is something new.
The input sensitivity can be set in 0.5dB steps anywhere from 0.7Vrms up to 10Vrms (for those who more like to see Voltage levels instead of dBs). Inputs survive 15Vpeak Voltage without significant distrortion, clipping or failure.
DSP board is internal and not accessible by the user.
Later i am planning to share more informations about the features and technology.

All the best
Péter

Tim McCulloch · « **Reply #11 on:** September 20, 2011, 11:36:32 AM »

Quote from: Peter PAPP [PKN] on September 20, 2011, 11:30:48 AM

Dear Sirs,

The power connector of PKN 3PHASE series is a modified MIL-DTL-C5015 standard circular, hermetic metal part. Similars used on lighting equipments and few speakers. May it will not pass CE regulatory approvals without problems which are under way but we will see.. We have also a second optional connector possibility but that would be more costly.
About the worries of reliability: the 40K version has doubled 20K modules (booth PSU+Endstages) also the built-in DSP has parallel processing and twin internal powering. The internal PSU modules which are segmented into parallel sections too have separated fusing per section so in case of one module fault (or a missing power line ;-) the unit remains operational.
Our new power conversion technology with these levels of compactness and power density was not really present in commercial/professional equipments. It is something new.
The input sensitivity can be set in 0.5dB steps anywhere from 0.7Vrms up to 10Vrms (for those who more like to see Voltage levels instead of dBs). Inputs survive 15Vpeak Voltage without significant distrortion, clipping or failure.
DSP board is internal and not accessible by the user.
Later i am planning to share more informations about the features and technology.

All the best
Péter

Greetings, Peter-

Thank you for contributing the additional information.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

Brad Weber · « **Reply #12 on:** September 20, 2011, 12:13:36 PM »

Peter, thanks for the response and additional information.

Jason Joseph · « **Reply #13 on:** September 22, 2011, 01:24:48 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJHBrNR-z9M

If you want to see one live in action...

Iain.Macdonald · « **Reply #14 on:** September 23, 2011, 01:34:15 PM »

Quote from: Jason Joseph on September 22, 2011, 01:24:48 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJHBrNR-z9M

If you want to see one live in action...

Hi,

Ah the spy pictures are beginning to surface! In the short time I was on their stand, it was fun to observe the "competition" coming to have a look at this amp. For those who were given the privilege of seeing the inside, let's just say, that this is not your average amplifier. It makes some other hyped products look "agricultural".

Peter: With regard to the connector and CE issues. Why not have a captive cable with standard 3Ø CEE connector.

Iain.

paul bell · « **Reply #15 on:** September 24, 2011, 12:23:57 AM »

This is all very interesting. I'd like to learn more about it.

I'd need it to run on 208 Volts, single phase. Two channels at 3,500 watts into 4 Ohms, one channel at 8,000 watts into 2 Ohms and one channel at 200 watts into 8 Ohms. It should be a walk in the park for an amp with these ratings. It's not as deep as the Powersoft amps but the power plug looks very long. 90 degree power inlet plug? It'll also need at minimum a CE certification.

Peter PAPP · « **Reply #16 on:** September 24, 2011, 05:23:44 AM »

Quote from: Iain Macdonald on September 23, 2011, 01:34:15 PM

Hi,

Peter: With regard to the connector and CE issues. Why not have a captive cable with standard 3Ø CEE connector.

Iain.

Dear Iain,

The powercord used as 1/3 phase operational selection in the following method: There are two prower cords for each amplifier, one is for the three phase and another for the single phase operation. So the user does not need to care anything else just plug in the proper connector and the unit is working. The power supply has automatic voltage sensing so it reconfigures itself for the optimal operation.
The power input connector has five pins, 3 smaller and 2 bigger. When operated on 3 phase the smaller pins used as line inputs (L1+L2+L3) line inputs and one bigger pin as the protective earth (PE). This is four wires total which means relative skinny cable.
When operated on single phase the three smaller pins connected all in parallel by the single phase power cable and used as line input (L) with three times of the current capability of the individual smaller pin and another bigger Neutral (N) connector used as well as protective earth (PE)

On single phase much more stronger line is required and there is no the advantage of the three-phase small ripple goodness however the amp is still operational at very high power level.
The amps would work even at 90Vac(single phase) but the charging capabilities of power supply drops dramatically and also the current draw limited to 63A(long term) which enable only much lower output operation.
Better to use the 180V...250Vac range on single phase but the best is the true three phase HV of course.. ;-)

Input current is forced to follow the shape of line Voltage in all operational conditions called Active Power Factor Correction. Another feature is that the maximum current draw could be set for different fuses by the user from the front display or even from remote (over ethernet). Ironically the biggest PKN amp has the lowest inrush current up to date

compared to our other units. The start-up process is also user configurable, faster start-up means higher inrush current.

There are many more styles of the applied power connector set, 90degree and different strain relief versions with longer or shorter sizes.

Péter

Jason Joseph · « **Reply #17 on:** December 07, 2012, 04:01:01 PM »

Any updates?!

Stu McDoniel · « **Reply #18 on:** December 07, 2012, 10:05:17 PM »

Quote from: Andre Spur on September 19, 2011, 04:30:10 AM

New Three Phase 40000Watts amplifier from PKN Controls

http://www.pknc.com/3phase_eng.html

How good would be the low frequency response due to the 3 phase powering?
Anybody has ever seen similar equipment?

ASP.

Price?