Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Rick Powell]

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/comments/article/20110914/PKR01/110914138/Fans-complain-Green-Bay-Packers-about-poor-audio-quality-new-sound-system-Lambeau-Field

This article (and the reader comments) came as a shock, to say the least, considering what was installed and who installed it.

[Charlie Zureki]

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/comments/article/20110914/PKR01/110914138/Fans-complain-Green-Bay-Packers-about-poor-audio-quality-new-sound-system-Lambeau-Field

This article (and the reader comments) came as a shock, to say the least, considering what was installed and who installed it.

   Hello,

 1.)  There will always be people that complain about one thing or another...
 2.)  It seems that there's more complaints about the CHOICE of music than the Sound system...
 3.)  What was installed and by whom?  It doesn't say in the Paper article....

   Hammer   

[Tom Danley]

It’s a case of when you have directional speakers, the people have to be in the coverage pattern.
Apparently there were a couple areas on the south corners which given where the speakers were placed, were obscured in the current placement.  I do know they are adding some more boxes for those places and otherwise are very happy with the sound.
Best,
Tom Danley

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/comments/article/20110914/PKR01/110914138/Fans-complain-Green-Bay-Packers-about-poor-audio-quality-new-sound-system-Lambeau-Field

This article (and the reader comments) came as a shock, to say the least, considering what was installed and who installed it.

[Tom Young]

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/comments/article/20110914/PKR01/110914138/Fans-complain-Green-Bay-Packers-about-poor-audio-quality-new-sound-system-Lambeau-Field

This article (and the reader comments) came as a shock, to say the least, considering what was installed and who installed it.

Hammer - take a look at:

http://www.commercialintegrator.com/article/lambeau_field_upgrades_speaker_system?utm_source=CEPWeekly&utm_medium=email

and: http://avispl.com/avdesign-integration/project.asp?ProjectID=94

Hmmm. I don't want to run off at the mouth here as I have considerable respect for both companies involved in this installation.

But tweaking the system via comments by punters is hardly the way to achieve good sound quality. Anywhere. And it should not be necessary.

I hope the Packers' spokesman is just spewing spin and that the pro's involved get a handle on this and straighten things out. And quickly.

[Charlie Zureki]

Hammer - take a look at:

http://www.commercialintegrator.com/article/lambeau_field_upgrades_speaker_system?utm_source=CEPWeekly&utm_medium=email

and: http://avispl.com/avdesign-integration/project.asp?ProjectID=94

Hmmm. I don't want to run off at the mouth here as I have considerable respect for both companies involved in this installation.

But tweaking the system via comments by punters is hardly the way to achieve good sound quality. Anywhere. And it should not be necessary.

  Thanks Toms...

   +1

  and...for all we know...it could be that the operator is not up to speed on this new System.

   Hammer

[Bob Leonard]

120db Speakers? did anyone measure the crowd noise throughout the stadium or were these boxes chosen for their weather resistant design alone? I just can't picture these cabinets surrounding the seating perimeter reaching the crowd in the middle of the seating areas with enough volume to be heard over the noise level of the crowd. But I've been wrong before, so who knows.

[Tom Danley]

Hi Bob,
Actually we supplied the speakers (not the layout or installation) for the main sound system and the problem isn’t not being loud enough, it’s that the pattern is such that as soon as you are out of it, the sound is greatly diminished.  At the south end, there are places in the corners that are not covered sufficiently and so some additional boxes (SH-50’s or SH-46’s not sure which) are being added to fill those spots out.  Otherwise the feedback has been very positive.

Best,
Tom Danley
Danley Sound Labs

some pictures here;
http://www.facebook.com/DanleySoundLabs?ref=ts

[duane massey]

So I am assuming that there are both Community and Danley products involved? Since my respect for both companies is extremely high I am going to guess that the design was not quite right, which would not be a complete shock. In spite of all the software out there, things sometimes get changed on a project like this, or certain issues get overlooked. Certainly wouldn't think it's the products.
I can also say that the guy at the wheel can also make or break a system, although from Tom D's observations I would assume there just a few "oops" in the design.

[Tom Danley]

Hi Duane
I think the community speakers are all around the exterior walkways and hallways.
The interior system is a bunch of GH-60’s, SH100’s and TH-118s. These are the things on the roof I was standing next to in the other picture and are visible on the right in this shot.  These are aimed downward into the crowd and the coverage ends just past the beginning of the grass.
The problem is they are about to re-do the south end (shown) and build a large seating and widescreen in that low area so they did not put in much sound there.
Best,
Tom Danley

[Charlie Zureki]

Hi Duane
I think the community speakers are all around the exterior walkways and hallways.
The interior system is a bunch of GH-60’s, SH100’s and TH-118s. These are the things on the roof I was standing next to in the other picture and are visible on the right in this shot.  These are aimed downward into the crowd and the coverage ends just past the beginning of the grass.
The problem is they are about to re-do the south end (shown) and build a large seating and widescreen in that low area so they did not put in much sound there.
Best,
Tom Danley

   Hello,
   It's not that anything was overlooked, it was that this Sound System was being installed in stages because Stadium construction is being completed in stages.

   Thanks Mr. Danley, for clearing up the topic.

   Cheers,
   Hammer

[Bob Leonard]

Hi Bob,
Actually we supplied the speakers (not the layout or installation) for the main sound system and the problem isn’t not being loud enough, it’s that the pattern is such that as soon as you are out of it, the sound is greatly diminished.  At the south end, there are places in the corners that are not covered sufficiently and so some additional boxes (SH-50’s or SH-46’s not sure which) are being added to fill those spots out.  Otherwise the feedback has been very positive.

Best,
Tom Danley
Danley Sound Labs

some pictures here;
http://www.facebook.com/DanleySoundLabs?ref=ts

Thanks Tom. It would be nice to know who did what here. I say that because the articles I've read don't mention Danley Sound at all, and I for one was left with the initial impression the entire job was done by another team using Community's products only.
 
I'm sure with your talent and products the problem will be resolved in less than a heart beat. Keep us up to date please.
 
Best back to you,
BL

[duane massey]

Yep, that's what I figured. It seems that politics are not the only area where the media leaves out a lot of the "insignificant" details, and false impressions become "facts".
Somehow couldn't picture Tom D allowing a system to be poorly done.

[Mike Hedden]

Yep, that's what I figured. It seems that politics are not the only area where the media leaves out a lot of the "insignificant" details, and false impressions become "facts".
Somehow couldn't picture Tom D allowing a system to be poorly done.

I worked on the design team for Lambeau and as Tom has pointed out, the south end zone undergoes a substantial renovation after this season and the Green Bay leadership decided it woud be properly addressed then. As to if the system is working properly, the STI measurements made by the Fire Marshal show the vast majority of the space being a .7 and as such, they were very impressed.  Aaron Rodgers, the reigning Super Bowl MVP stated after a post game interview how he liked the new sound system!  That video is up on our Facebook page and YouTube. When's the last time you've heard an athlete mention anything regarding the audio system.  All that said, it's a 73,000 seat stadium, in the age of chat rooms and blogs, you think you'll ever get 100% agreement on anything?!
I too have been a bit confused by various print/internet sources as to who did what at Lambeau but as Tom has stated, Danley products address the entire main stadium proper,(Genesis Horns and TH118s) as well as the luxury boxes (SHMicro's).  The Community products, (great people and products) cover the concourse/breeze way areas.
In conclusion, I'd love to give everyone a demo of this system, to be in a difficult space, luxury boxes four stories high wrap almost the entire field, it really sounds nice.

Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.

[Jason Joseph]

Great job guys!

[Ivan Beaver]

120db Speakers? did anyone measure the crowd noise throughout the stadium or were these boxes chosen for their weather resistant design alone? I just can't picture these cabinets surrounding the seating perimeter reaching the crowd in the middle of the seating areas with enough volume to be heard over the noise level of the crowd. But I've been wrong before, so who knows.

You have to remember that these are not normal loudspeakers-expecially coverage wise.

The GH60 has most of its energy coming out of the top of the horn and considerably less out of the bottom.

So the main axis is pointed at the front rows and much less energy is going to the seats at the top.  Of course those seats are closer-so they need less level to be "equal" in level.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but the first time I was there I measured something on the order of a difference of around 3dB from the top seats to the ones next to the field.

And because of the pattern that is basically a downward facing one, there is much less energy from one side getting to the other (cross field contamination).  You hear mostly direct sound and very limited reflected sound.  With nobody in the stadium you do get a decent 1st order reflection from the sound hitting the seats and being reflected to the other side.  But with the "bags of water" in place, they pretty much kill the reflection.

Hence the high STI (.7) that Mike stated.

[Ivan Beaver]

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/comments/article/20110914/PKR01/110914138/Fans-complain-Green-Bay-Packers-about-poor-audio-quality-new-sound-system-Lambeau-Field

This article (and the reader comments) came as a shock, to say the least, considering what was installed and who installed it.

I have no idea the specifics of what is being talked about, but do know that the consultant and the contractor are very happy with the sound (with the sound end being addressed as we speak).

On one of my trips there, the contractor was having a problem with the fiber link-causing a distrotion that sounded like severe clipping-but still "useful"-kinda .

There are 3 amp rooms and the control room in the basic system.  All signals are cobranet being transmitted over fiber to the different locations.

It could be that there was a problem in the signal transfer to one of the amp rooms-causing a section to have a problem.

To be honest-I am just leary of large scale digital transfer of signals.  Yes when it is working, it is fine and cool and has lots of advantages.  However when it is not working-you can have all kinds of weird problems/issues.  At least with analog, you can patch into any point in the system and measure and generate any sort of standard analog signal to test.  With digital, it is more like "let's try this" or "swap that out and let's see".

I was at a kinda large college stadium this week and they were having some of the same sort of "weirdness" with the digital transfer from FOH to the amp room.

Call me old fashioned-but I still like copper.

[Stu McDoniel]

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/comments/article/20110914/PKR01/110914138/Fans-complain-Green-Bay-Packers-about-poor-audio-quality-new-sound-system-Lambeau-Field

This article (and the reader comments) came as a shock, to say the least, considering what was installed and who installed it.

Ok I live in central Wisconsin and Im a huge Packer fan..I have friends who go to the games who know good sound and ALL I have heard is how great this new Danley system sounds.  I can hear the difference even when Im watching on TV with the articulation and clarity.  The comment I recieved from a friend who knows good sound is he never heard reverb in the space.   Everywhere he went he said it was fantastic.   A few grumbling idiots with no clue can lead to articles like the one listed.   Tom and his crew and Ivan will get on it and get whatever issue there is fixed. 

[duane massey]

+1 on copper over digital. I'm an old guy, too...

[ProSoundWeb Community]