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Author Topic: 2 horn subs mouth to mouth  (Read 3242 times)

ThomasA(lbenberger)

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2 horn subs mouth to mouth
« on: October 08, 2011, 03:48:01 am »

Hi all!

Please help me with this plan of mine for an install:

Small club, live & dj program, area to cover holds approx. 150 on 60sqm. Stage is made out of concrete, 60cm high, 4.5m wide, 4m deep.

Current subs to replace are 2 pcs of EV T18 (old single 18" front loaded).

My plan is to have two of these horns: http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_box_pro_achat_212_h_sub.htm laying in front of the stage.

To save space, the long side of the cabinets should be touching the (concrete) stage so that the two mouths are facing each other in the middle.

Now here is the question:

What happens when two (horn loaded) subs are facing each other and putting out exactly the same signal? Will that impose any extra stress on the loudspeaker components due to (possibly) greater air pressure?

Are there any simple means with which I can direct the sound radiating more towards the audience than up towards the stage?

I am currently thinking of building a triangle out of concrete right in the middle in between the horn mouths, spacing the two cabinets at such distance, that this triangle effectively steers and extends the two horn paths and combines them (roughly) into one horn opening. Like this:

|                                      |
|                 STAGE            |
|                                      |
|......................................|
   |`````|_   \_/   _|`````|
   |........|  \       /  |........|
     Sub       |     |      Sub


What do you think about this plan? Do you think this concrete triangle will contribute in any positive way? Do you have any other suggestions?

Thank you all for your help!

Cheers,

Thomas
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: 2 horn subs mouth to mouth
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2011, 01:40:38 pm »

Hi all!

Please help me with this plan of mine for an install:

Small club, live & dj program, area to cover holds approx. 150 on 60sqm. Stage is made out of concrete, 60cm high, 4.5m wide, 4m deep.

Current subs to replace are 2 pcs of EV T18 (old single 18" front loaded).

My plan is to have two of these horns: http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_box_pro_achat_212_h_sub.htm laying in front of the stage.

To save space, the long side of the cabinets should be touching the (concrete) stage so that the two mouths are facing each other in the middle.

Now here is the question:

What happens when two (horn loaded) subs are facing each other and putting out exactly the same signal? Will that impose any extra stress on the loudspeaker components due to (possibly) greater air pressure?

Are there any simple means with which I can direct the sound radiating more towards the audience than up towards the stage?

I am currently thinking of building a triangle out of concrete right in the middle in between the horn mouths, spacing the two cabinets at such distance, that this triangle effectively steers and extends the two horn paths and combines them (roughly) into one horn opening. Like this:

|                                      |
|                 STAGE            |
|                                      |
|......................................|
   |`````|_   \_/   _|`````|
   |........|  \       /  |........|
     Sub       |     |      Sub


What do you think about this plan? Do you think this concrete triangle will contribute in any positive way? Do you have any other suggestions?

Thank you all for your help!

Cheers,

Thomas

In order for this to work (somewhat) the stage would have to be taller than the subs along with the triangle in the middle being at least as tall.
You would want a sheet of plywood to set on top of the triangle to cover the opening above and reach L/R to cover both subs. This would in effect be a new mouth for the subs.
You would then want to move the sub away from or closer to the triangle to see if it effects the output and freq. response of the grouped subs. I'm guessing this would effect the loading on the woofers and may cause harm if not done correctly.

Is there a reason you don't want to purchase a 2-18 type sub box?

Douglas R. Allen
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ThomasA(lbenberger)

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Re: 2 horn subs mouth to mouth
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2011, 04:09:21 am »

hi douglas!

thank you very much for your input!

In order for this to work (somewhat) the stage would have to be taller than the subs along with the triangle in the middle being at least as tall.

the stage is taller. the triangle would be built to stage height.

You would want a sheet of plywood to set on top of the triangle to cover the opening above and reach L/R to cover both subs. This would in effect be a new mouth for the subs.

sorry I wasn't precise on this in my original post. this is exactly what I'm planning. my question about steering sub energy away from the stage was meant in context with the conrete triangle: would it help to build it with a wider top and narrow bottom, creating somewhat an asymmetrical hornopening as is seen in some hf-horns. would this have any noticeable effect on where the sub frequencys go?

sorry again for not being precise here before.

You would then want to move the sub away from or closer to the triangle to see if it effects the output and freq. response of the grouped subs.

optimization by moving subs a bit is okay with me, I will do that. however, it's not feaseable to build a concrete element of some sort and than take it away again, just to get an idea of its impact on the propagation of the sub frequencies. I could experiment with plywood sheet and will eventually do that, but if any of you has some personal experience with such a setup, this would be a good starting point.

I'm guessing this would effect the loading on the woofers and may cause harm if not done correctly.

Quote from: myself
Will that impose any extra stress on the loudspeaker components due to (possibly) greater air pressure?

this is my main question!! has anyone done this and what was your experience with it?

is this idea of mine of a concrete triangle going to help steer the sound away from the other hornmouth?

is it necessary?

Is there a reason you don't want to purchase a 2-18 type sub box?

yes.

so, thanks again douglas!

my question remains, though: has anyone of you used horn loaded subs mouth to mouth, did you notice any additional stress on and failure from the components and did you eventually construct any elements to steer the sub energy of one cabinet away from the other cabinet? how so?

thank you very much!

cheers, thomas
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Lance Qu

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Re: 2 horn subs mouth to mouth
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2011, 10:08:21 pm »

Hi all!

Please help me with this plan of mine for an install:

Small club, live & dj program, area to cover holds approx. 150 on 60sqm. Stage is made out of concrete, 60cm high, 4.5m wide, 4m deep.

Current subs to replace are 2 pcs of EV T18 (old single 18" front loaded).

My plan is to have two of these horns: http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_box_pro_achat_212_h_sub.htm laying in front of the stage.

To save space, the long side of the cabinets should be touching the (concrete) stage so that the two mouths are facing each other in the middle.

Now here is the question:

What happens when two (horn loaded) subs are facing each other and putting out exactly the same signal? Will that impose any extra stress on the loudspeaker components due to (possibly) greater air pressure?

Are there any simple means with which I can direct the sound radiating more towards the audience than up towards the stage?

I am currently thinking of building a triangle out of concrete right in the middle in between the horn mouths, spacing the two cabinets at such distance, that this triangle effectively steers and extends the two horn paths and combines them (roughly) into one horn opening. Like this:

|                                      |
|                 STAGE            |
|                                      |
|......................................|
   |`````|_   \_/   _|`````|
   |........|  \       /  |........|
     Sub       |     |      Sub


What do you think about this plan? Do you think this concrete triangle will contribute in any positive way? Do you have any other suggestions?

Thank you all for your help!

Cheers,

Thomas

you plan appears to be EV Manifold Technology, can it be a starting point ??

als like D&B audiotechnik' C2-SUB loaded with two 18inch drivers facing each other putting energy out.

hope that will enspire you somewhat
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Lance Quinn

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Stu McDoniel

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Re: 2 horn subs mouth to mouth
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2011, 07:55:30 pm »

Hi all!

Please help me with this plan of mine for an install:

Small club, live & dj program, area to cover holds approx. 150 on 60sqm. Stage is made out of concrete, 60cm high, 4.5m wide, 4m deep.

Current subs to replace are 2 pcs of EV T18 (old single 18" front loaded).

My plan is to have two of these horns: http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_box_pro_achat_212_h_sub.htm laying in front of the stage.

To save space, the long side of the cabinets should be touching the (concrete) stage so that the two mouths are facing each other in the middle.

Now here is the question:

What happens when two (horn loaded) subs are facing each other and putting out exactly the same signal? Will that impose any extra stress on the loudspeaker components due to (possibly) greater air pressure?

Are there any simple means with which I can direct the sound radiating more towards the audience than up towards the stage?

I am currently thinking of building a triangle out of concrete right in the middle in between the horn mouths, spacing the two cabinets at such distance, that this triangle effectively steers and extends the two horn paths and combines them (roughly) into one horn opening. Like this:

|                                      |
|                 STAGE            |
|                                      |
|......................................|
   |`````|_   \_/   _|`````|
   |........|  \       /  |........|
     Sub       |     |      Sub


What do you think about this plan? Do you think this concrete triangle will contribute in any positive way? Do you have any other suggestions?

Thank you all for your help!

Cheers,

Thomas
Bill has some good examples of horn loaded sub placement

http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=398
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