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Author Topic: Liar Liar-pants on fire  (Read 11638 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Liar Liar-pants on fire
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2011, 10:25:04 am »

Wanna bet they modeled direct coverage with just the audience area and no interference?  If you don't turn on interference for the prediction then you don't get any interference in the result, I wonder if they even realize that. 

Maybe you could recommend they talk to an independent third party. ;)
But the basic fact is that you can't model subs in EASE-no matter interference turned on or off or walls or whatever-it can't be done.  At least in any version I have seen.

So saying that he modeled it in EASe is just simply a lie. Period.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Liar Liar-pants on fire
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2011, 10:29:05 am »

    Hello,

   It's the Good, Cheap & Fast syndrome ....  unfortunately, the Owner of this venue is hearing every side of the good/bad design argument...but, he wants this system to be Good, Cheap & Fast.

    He's a poor businessman to think he'll get all three of these criteria. 

   If he's really not as concerned about the cost as much as he's concerned about performance... a demo is the only way to prove the other guy's "design" is flawed. But, if he's only concerned about getting something loud (and cheap)... He doesn't win, his customers don't win ...the other HACK installer is the only winner.

   "Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose"...Some people always lose...especially, when it's about cheap and loud.


 Hammer
I don't think money is a real issue-yet anyway.  No numbers have been given-but he is talking about some of the more expensive products.

I think the call was more a matter of wanting to see what I thought-not that he was going to go with the other suggestion.

We will wait and see when they are ready to put some real numbers for the gear as to what is going to be used.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Jim McKeveny

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Re: Lier Lier-pants on fire
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2011, 01:00:28 pm »



I do know one guy that would make such a claim but he's far too analogue and stuck on 80's style Bertha's & bullets to even know what EASE is.
[/quote]

Is this the same people who put a 2 x18" vented subs for the bandpass below Bertha's? They also have pix on their website of Crown Macro's installed in the flown speakers? Great for maintenance of those foam filters..
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Brian Larson

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Re: Lier Lier-pants on fire
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2011, 10:44:33 pm »

They also have pix on their website of Crown Macro's installed in the flown speakers? Great for maintenance of those foam filters..


I gotta see that. Someone post it.
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Iain.Macdonald

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Re: Liar Liar-pants on fire
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2011, 10:39:32 am »

In the spirit of the post title, for Ivan!

http://t.co/jyd2Jhl
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paul bell

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Re: Liar Liar-pants on fire
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2011, 05:41:46 pm »

Interesting stuff Iain. Their "Triwave" cabinet has a 0 x 90 coverage rating with the Line Source Dispersion Plate option.

Hmm. what single row of people do I want to hear the sound? I hope they don't move at all or they'll be out of the coverage range.

http://www.flareaudio.com/specsheets/triwavei10.pdf
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Brad Weber

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Re: Liar Liar-pants on fire
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2011, 08:06:54 am »

In the spirit of the post title, for Ivan!

http://t.co/jyd2Jhl
Nice find!  Among many other things,  they claim 121dB sensitivity while then noting that the 1m sensitivity is 93dB at 20Hz, so how do you get the purported 18-850Hz frequency response when the 20Hz response is apparently 28dB down from the average or peak?  If the response is 18-850Hz  and the sensitivities are at 2.83V and 2 Ohms then it looks like at best an 87dB@1W/1m sensitivity and 124dB@1m "RMS" output rather than 115dB@1W/1m and 152 dB@1m.  But why let such details get in the way of marketing?
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Jeremy Johnston

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Re: Liar Liar-pants on fire
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2011, 11:02:32 am »

Not to be a twerp, but if you're clever, you CAN model below 100Hz in EASE using omni-directional sources.

You have to scale all the dimensions and then make sure you scale your graphs by the same amount and you can see the same interference effects you would expect.

Only with omni sources and it gets confusing quickly. It's not something I would want to show a customer, but for experimentation there is some valid information as long as you think it all through.

Jeremy
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Liar Liar-pants on fire
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2011, 12:54:36 pm »

Not to be a twerp, but if you're clever, you CAN model below 100Hz in EASE using omni-directional sources.

You have to scale all the dimensions and then make sure you scale your graphs by the same amount and you can see the same interference effects you would expect.

Only with omni sources and it gets confusing quickly. It's not something I would want to show a customer, but for experimentation there is some valid information as long as you think it all through.

Jeremy
But the guy said he modeled the particular speakers he was trying to sell in EASE.

Agreed you can scale-but it is only good for omni sources.  And while bass cabients are considered to be "omni" most do exhibit a bit of forward directivity-especially at the upper end of their ranges.

So without some sort of actual data-it is not possible to do any sort of accurate model.

But I am sure it is all made up anyway
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Nitin Sidhu

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Re: Liar Liar-pants on fire
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2011, 01:19:08 pm »

Most ppl, are a lot more excited by sound in Surround than any sort of phase issues.

Its a pity. And their 128kbps mp3 on their latest ipod, sounds better than my old CD player.

Cheers!
Sidhu
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Liar Liar-pants on fire
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2011, 01:19:08 pm »


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