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Author Topic: Liar Liar-pants on fire  (Read 11801 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Liar Liar-pants on fire
« on: August 26, 2011, 09:13:16 pm »

Sorry for this rant-but it really makes my blood boil! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Today I had a phone conversation with a customer who I have been working with on the design for a club/skating rink.  He had previously asked about putting the subs in the 4 corners of the building (100'x100') and I had explained to him about the cancellations he was going to have-and when people skate they would be going in and out of those nulls/peaks real easy and often.

Well he was talking to somebody who wanted to sell him some subs that he claimed did not have those interference issues.  He said he did a model in EASE and the coverage was smooth with no interference.!

LIAR LIAR

First of all, I don't care whos subs you use-what DSP processing is applied or whatever, you will have interference with the subs in the corners.

Second-EASE can't model anything below 100Hz and there is no EASE data for speakers below 100Hz.

So the guy is simply making something up to try and sell some subs.

Now I have no problem with saying "well I think so and so sounds better than other brand" and so forth.  But making outright WRONG statements just to sell is simply lying.

I told my customer to ask for a coverage map-I would LOVE to see that.  But I am sure he can't produce anything-because he has no idea what he is talking about.

But since when has that stopped people in this business from making things up as they go. :( :(

Here is the layout with at 63Hz and 1/12th oct bandwidth.  Yeah-no interference that I can see HA-HA
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 08:51:51 am by Ivan Beaver »
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Mac Kerr

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Re: Liar Liar-pants on fire
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2011, 09:29:18 pm »

I have a similar reaction when people model subs with MAPPOnline. They look great if you don't turn on the walls. Things look a little different when you add in the reflections.

Mac
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Robert Weston

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Re: Lier Lier-pants on fire
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2011, 09:33:30 pm »

It's a shame how much people lie to make a buck.  I think about how things are in this country (and this world) where people will sell their kids for heroin, cocaine, etc... and then claim to be a victim of society; so, I do my part and explain to the customer how they had the wool pulled over their eyes and if they are serious about their project (or event or whatever), that I will be able to help them.  From there, I see where it goes.

There's always going to be a snake-oil salesman out there, and I am convinced that some people really like talking to (and working with) those kinds of people.
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paul bell

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Re: Lier Lier-pants on fire
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2011, 10:02:19 pm »

Yeah, I hate it too. Like it's not hard enough to sell a proper sound system design enough.

Ivan, by chance is this skating rink in Pennsylvania?

Do you know the brand of subs? Surely no maker would never make such a claim.

I do know one guy that would make such a claim but he's far too analogue and stuck on 80's style Bertha's & bullets to even know what EASE is.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Liar-Liar trousers burning
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2011, 10:47:45 pm »

Did you misspell it on purpose so if he searched for himself using liar-liar he wouldn't find this thread?  8)

JR
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duane massey

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Re: Lier Lier-pants on fire
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2011, 02:51:48 am »

Ivan, just curious. What is the best compromise in a room that large?
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Duane Massey
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Lier Lier-pants on fire
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2011, 08:50:52 am »

Yeah, I hate it too. Like it's not hard enough to sell a proper sound system design enough.

Ivan, by chance is this skating rink in Pennsylvania?

Do you know the brand of subs? Surely no maker would never make such a claim.

I do know one guy that would make such a claim but he's far too analogue and stuck on 80's style Bertha's & bullets to even know what EASE is.
I don't know where it is and I think I caught he say Peavey subs.  But Peavey would never make a claim like that.  It was just something this guy made up trying to sell him some subs. Probably something he has had lying around and wants to move.

Some people will say anything that they think the other person wants to hear. Sounds like pickup lines in a bar.  Until they are called on it.  But then they will just find somebody else who is gullable
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Lier Lier-pants on fire
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2011, 09:06:17 am »

Ivan, just curious. What is the best compromise in a room that large?
The room has several uses.  One is DJ dance type stuff, but there will be a stage and they plan on having live acts as well.  They are going to have regular dance nights and skate nights.

One of the things the client keeps harping on is IMPACT with a decent amount of depth.  But the "slam" is really what is important to him.

Even coverage level wise is not as important.  He doesn't mind it being louder near the stage-to draw people there.

So I have suggested a center cluster of subs based on that criteria.

The PA will be a stereo system-since the main usage is dance club.

We will wait and see what the final budget is before getting exact models/qty etc.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Brad Weber

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Re: Liar Liar-pants on fire
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2011, 09:07:18 am »

Well he was talking to somebody who wanted to sell him some subs that he claimed did not have those interference issues.  He said he did a model in EASE and the coverage was smooth with no interference.!
Wanna bet they modeled direct coverage with just the audience area and no interference?  If you don't turn on interference for the prediction then you don't get any interference in the result, I wonder if they even realize that. 

Maybe you could recommend they talk to an independent third party. ;)
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Charlie Zureki

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Re: Liar Liar-pants on fire
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2011, 09:35:18 am »

Well he was talking to somebody who wanted to sell him some subs that he claimed did not have those interference issues.  He said he did a model in EASE and the coverage was smooth with no interference.!
Wanna bet they modeled direct coverage with just the audience area and no interference?  If you don't turn on interference for the prediction then you don't get any interference in the result, I wonder if they even realize that. 

Maybe you could recommend they talk to an independent third party. ;)

    Hello,

   It's the Good, Cheap & Fast syndrome ....  unfortunately, the Owner of this venue is hearing every side of the good/bad design argument...but, he wants this system to be Good, Cheap & Fast.

    He's a poor businessman to think he'll get all three of these criteria. 

   If he's really not as concerned about the cost as much as he's concerned about performance... a demo is the only way to prove the other guy's "design" is flawed. But, if he's only concerned about getting something loud (and cheap)... He doesn't win, his customers don't win ...the other HACK installer is the only winner.

   "Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose"...Some people always lose...especially, when it's about cheap and loud.


 Hammer
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Liar Liar-pants on fire
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2011, 09:35:18 am »


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