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[Mario Roman]

Hi All,

I'm just about ready to sell off my U15PB/LS800PB pairs for a Danley system for my classic rock band. While I'm pretty much set on the new SM69F (60x90 version of the Sm60F), I'm not sure which pair of subs to match with it. My interests are either the TH212 or the TH118. Ivan has suggested the TH118 but the extra size and weight may be a factor since I usually unload and set up everything myself. I'd like to get some opinions from people who have actually used these models on which they prefer and why. I understand the TH118 will probably go a little lower and louder but it seems to me that the TH212 may be a bit more responsive ("punchy" if you will) due to the smaller driver. My only problem with my current subs is that they have always been a bit boomy and I'm concerned another 18" will sound similar. Thanks.

Mario

[Fernando Lopez]

What brand, model are your current subs? How do you power them?

[Jay Barracato]

What brand, model are your current subs? How do you power them?

Hi All,

LS800PB Mario

[Fernando Lopez]

Ooops, sorry missed it

[Frederik Rosenkjær]

I have 2 x TH212 and I'm very happy with them. I'm confident they will match the SM69F very well in terms of power.

I'm planning on buying a couple of TH118's myself (probably 4 in total), but that's to go with SH46's which are extremely powerful. I don't think you need to worry about the tonal quality of the TH118 (I haven't heard it myself though - only the TH115) but being "boomy" is certainly not something I expect it to be.

The TH212 is, however, very handy in size which is also why I chose it. Lots of possibilites thanks to the very small size in one of the dimensions, and since I'm an addict of mono sub it comes in very handy to go under the stage or as an extension of the front of the stage. They can really blend in - at one gig I'd placed them together as an extended front of the stage, since they couldn't go under (the stage was the same height as the subs). When the band came they asked me if I had brought no subs?! While standing 4 meters directly in front of them...

So it may be a tough decision ahead - clear advantages with both options.

[Mario Roman]

Thanks Frederik. You point out another reasong why I'm leaning towards the TH212 and that's its slimmer profile making it a little more versatile. Since you've heard both the TH115 and TH212, in terms of tonal characteristics what is the difference between the two? (i.e. one's goes lower, one's more punchy etc..).  Also, what are you powering your TH212's with? Since I'm moving from powered to unpowered cabs, I have to start deciding on which amp to go with. I'm thinking I'd be ok with the PLX3102 in bridged mono for either the TH118 or Th212 (1 per sub). It's a little small for the TH118 but should be ok for the size of club we play. What do you think?

[Reggie Kendrick]

Another guy to ask about the TH212 in the live sound environments is Kemper Watson.  I believe he runs 4 of them for his band.

I'm not surprised when you say your LS800PB's are boomy.  I got the same impression of them prior to buying my Danley subs.  I A/B'd them to what I owned at the time (HPR181i's) and felt the QSC's sounded much more transient in bass response; although not nearly as loud.  The LS800P's just sounded boomy and begged to have a PEq applied. 

I went from the TH-115 to the TH-118's.  The difference is night and day.  The TH-115 was a beast in my opinion and the TH-118 is them on steroids.  I had Ivan compare the TH-212 to the TH-118 once before but I definitely felt the 118 had deeper and louder overall response.  For power, I use to run a QSC PL325 bridged mono into my TH-118 but based on recommendations from PSW guys, I switched to a per channel configuration and my amp of choice is the Crown MA12000i.

I have a feeling you'd really love the TH-212's form factor over the TH-118's.  Four of those units probably take up the space of 2 TH-118's.

[Frederik Rosenkjær]

I haven't heard the TH115 enough to really make a comparison - but there are a few others on record on the old forums (Ivan, Langston Holland amongst others).

For me it's like sound quality is not an issue with Danley speakers - they're just the best there is and therefore in some way irrelevant to talk about. This goes for both subs and tops. Regarding SQ, DSL > anything else in my book, period.

So I would focus on the practical issues - how loud do you need it and how much space have you got. If you know you're gonna run it with 2 x SM69F, I strongly suspect 2 x TH212 will be enough. I base this on my own quite extensive experience with the TH212 and thorough investigation of the SM60F which, although I haven't heard it, I think I have some idea of how loud will go - based on people's comparisons with the SH50 etc.

I've done some calculations of the physical dimensions of the  TH212 vs. TH118. They are not on this computer, but from memory the volume ratio is right about 1.3 x TH212 = 1 x TH118 and in foot print (which is important for me) it's only about 1.18 x TH212 = 1 x TH118 - so the TH118 is only 18% bigger in footprint in the truck.

When holding this up against the gain advantage it's clear that the TH118 likely represents Danley's highest "SPL density" - or "bang for the size", if you will.

With respect to the sensitivity alone, it's something like

+ 6dB @ 30 Hz
+ 4dB @ 40 Hz
+ 4.5dB @ 50 Hz
+ 5.5dB @ 55 Hz

TH118 vs TH212 - and then you can add the increased power handling to that, to get up to +8dB or something @ 30Hz relative to the TH212, if you have the power. I'm using a Yamaha TX5n, now that you ask.

Anyway - that was just some random musings about the dilemma, which I seem to be solving by getting both

[Mario Roman]

For me it's like sound quality is not an issue with Danley speakers - they're just the best there is and therefore in some way irrelevant to talk about. This goes for both subs and tops. Regarding SQ, DSL > anything else in my book, period.

That's quite a passionate testimonial. That makes me feel better about Danley boxes not being biampable. (Except the Jericho and Gh series). I was considering the powered version of the SM69F since it's biamped. Ivan did say that the difference was negligable, but from my understanding most "Pro" users consider runnig a top box full range taboo. I wonder if it's the synergy horn that makes the difference in the Danley cabs.  My current train of though is that the Th212 will suffice for my purposes with the SM69F, but if I get Th118 instead I won't have to worry about upgrading my subs if I decide to get mains with more output in the future. Thus I think I'll go with them. Thanks to everyone for the help.

Mario

[Ivan Beaver]

That's quite a passionate testimonial. That makes me feel better about Danley boxes not being biampable. (Except the Jericho and Gh series). I was considering the powered version of the SM69F since it's biamped. Ivan did say that the difference was negligable, but from my understanding most "Pro" users consider runnig a top box full range taboo. I wonder if it's the synergy horn that makes the difference in the Danley cabs.  My current train of though is that the Th212 will suffice for my purposes with the SM69F, but if I get Th118 instead I won't have to worry about upgrading my subs if I decide to get mains with more output in the future. Thus I think I'll go with them. Thanks to everyone for the help.

Mario

The GH boxes are not biampable-only passive.

A lot of the "pro" thoughts on passive boxes are based on history in which there have not been high output passive boxes, and typically only MI type boxes are passive, and a lot of passive boxes historically don't have well designed crossovers.

It is also "assumed" that an active box sounds better than a passive box.  Well that depends on how well the user sets up the active crossover.  If it is setup wrong, then it won't sound as good.

It is also assumed that a passive crossover reduces the output.  That depends on how well the crossover is designed.

OK my computer has just gotten messed up so I will finish this later once it starts working correctly

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