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[Erich Schneider]

We are currently mixing with a Roland VM-7000 into a Soundweb/amp stack that is running as summed mono.  The question has arisen several times, "Why don't we send a stereo mix into the sanctuary?"

Cons:  Instruments and voices could get lost on one side or the other.  Additional training required for sound techs.

Pros:  Added depth of sound.  Ability to tune the room according to seating preferences (older folks tend to sit on one side, younger on the other).

How do you mix your house (i.e. stereo/mono) and what do you like/not like about it?

[Tom Young]

We are currently mixing with a Roland VM-7000 into a Soundweb/amp stack that is running as summed mono.  The question has arisen several times, "Why don't we send a stereo mix into the sanctuary?"

Cons:  Instruments and voices could get lost on one side or the other.  Additional training required for sound techs.

Pros:  Added depth of sound.  Ability to tune the room according to seating preferences (older folks tend to sit on one side, younger on the other).

How do you mix your house (i.e. stereo/mono) and what do you like/not like about it?

It is common practice (awareness) that one does not hard-pan sources in a stereo sound reinforcement system other than effects returns and maybe stereo electronic keyboards. So you pan things slightly and get sufficient "spaciousness" without (as you noted) robbing those on the far side what has been panned too far to the other side.

It is very unlikely that one could succeed by tuning one side of a stereo reinforcement system to appeal to one demographic versus another without serious unintended consequences. Think about it. I also have never seen folks split this way. Usually, those who are put off by (what they percieve to be) loud SPL's sit further away.

A stereo reinforcement system, when set up and optimized properly, as well as run intelligently, provides an aural experience that *can be* more enjoyable (for both the operator and the audience) than a mono system. But it costs more and (as we both have noted) requires some skill to not get into trouble with.

Also note that a stereo reinforcement speaker system is not ideal for mono sources that must be panned to the center. Like the pastor's mic.  A properly designed multi-channel reinforcement system (at the very least) provides left, center and right arrays and each of these must cover all of the seats. Plus you need a "true" LCR mixer.

Mono is simpler and costs less. But mono must also be done right.

[Erich Schneider]

Also note that a stereo reinforcement speaker system is not ideal for mono sources that must be panned to the center. Like the pastor's mic.  A properly designed multi-channel reinforcement system (at the very least) provides left, center and right arrays and each of these must cover all of the seats. Plus you need a "true" LCR mixer.

Mono is simpler and costs less. But mono must also be done right.

Tom,

Thanks for the reply.  Since we already have the equipment in place, cost is not a factor.  It's no more than telling the Soundweb processor to stop merging the L/R mains into a mono feed.  The amps are set up for left and right (but no center).

I don't imagine that we'll ever please everybody, though a little less guitar on one side might please a few.  I already cited training as an issue-- that is, teaching that a hard pan is bad.  We considered setting the soundweb so that a hard left pan is mixed at only a fraction of that on the output... just enough for effect and depth.

Given that we already have the equipment in place and will provide the training for the mix engineers, would you convert to stereo?

[Jordan Wolf]

Given that we already have the equipment in place and will provide the training for the mix engineers, would you convert to stereo?

I'd give it a try at a rehearsal first, then in an actual service after any kinks have been worked out.  You might even consider putting a small survey in the bulletin for that week - maybe something like, "There WAS/WAS NOT a noticeable difference in the sound quality of the praise & worship compared to that of previous weeks".  I would add a comment section for people to put in their own responses.  It may open up areas of concern that you had not thought about before.

[Joe Lee]

Hi,Erich

What about to display the different position of the loudspeaker?

[Brad Weber]

Tom,

Thanks for the reply.  Since we already have the equipment in place, cost is not a factor.  It's no more than telling the Soundweb processor to stop merging the L/R mains into a mono feed.  The amps are set up for left and right (but no center).

Read some of Tom's post carefully and make sure that is a valid statement.  There is a significant difference between having left and right speakers or arrays and actually having a stereo system.  Perhaps the simplest way to look at this is to think about how close your system comes to providing the exact same experience to every location in the listener area.  For true stereo everyone in the audience would receive the same relative level, relative arrival times, etc. from both channels and that is typically difficult to achieve.

I believe this is also why Tom commented on the idea of 'tuning' one side of the system to try to deliver different mixes to the two sides of the room as that actually goes against the concept of a stereo system.  What you are talking about there would be more of a dual mono system where each speaker covers half of the room and the overlap in coverage and interaction between them is as minimal as possible.  So that may be where some confusion is occurring as the concept of creating a different experience for different areas of the audience directly conflicts with the concept of a stereo system that would deliver the same experience to everyone in the audience.

[Erich Schneider]

There is a significant difference between having left and right speakers or arrays and actually having a stereo system. 

What you are talking about there would be more of a dual mono system where each speaker covers half of the room and the overlap in coverage and interaction between them is as minimal as possible

True and true.  There are 4 mains suspended from the ceiling and 4 fills on the stage.  We talked about running them L-R-L-R so that the stereo effect is more evenly distributed.  That was rejected because we often show videos and the center of the sanctuary would experience a reversed stereo with respect to the video.

I think initially, any stereo effect we introduce will be minimal, and used more for effects (reverb and delay) than anything else.

[Brad Weber]

We run stereo and I love it.  We have two electric guitarist.  One is panned a bit to the left, the other a bit to the right.  Toms and OH mics on the drums are also panned slightly (respectively).  This gives you a little bit more clarity on each piece, and it's easier for the sound engineer to figure out which guitar is making that awful noise (or needs to be eq'd a bit better):  Is it coming from the left, or the right?

Overall, it just sounds better.

Just curious, but are your observations based on what you hear at the mix position and if so, where is that located?

It is common for 'stereo' systems to be judged based on what is heard at the mix position, however it is also common that between the coverage of the speakers and the stage levels what is heard at other locations in the listener area may differ significantly form what you hear at the mix position.  The effectiveness of a stereo system is dependent upon much more than having left and right speakers and panning the signal, what matters is what the listeners hear and creating a similar listening experience over a larger listening area can be challenging, even more so with with live performers.   So while it is always important to listen at different locations throughout the listener area and mix based on that rather than mixing based on what you hear at the mix position, that may be even more important when mixing on a 'stereo' system.

[Taylor Phillips]

I've only panned things on rare occasion, most of the time just as an experiment to see what it sounded like, then panned things back center.  I always walk from one side to the other, and from the back to the front during sound check or rehearsals so I can try to find anything that sounds 'off' and seems to happen more often if I'm trying to pan things.

Now, this something that some of the more experienced here can confirm/deny: I've heard that if you have something like a choir, or horn sections - things where you need multiple mics, but the mics pick up many of the same sounds, that panning those mics can prevent phase and cancellation issues.  Is this right?

[Brent Ingroum]

Just curious, but are your observations based on what you hear at the mix position and if so, where is that located?

It is common for 'stereo' systems to be judged based on what is heard at the mix position, however it is also common that between the coverage of the speakers and the stage levels what is heard at other locations in the listener area may differ significantly form what you hear at the mix position.  The effectiveness of a stereo system is dependent upon much more than having left and right speakers and panning the signal, what matters is what the listeners hear and creating a similar listening experience over a larger listening area can be challenging, even more so with with live performers.   So while it is always important to listen at different locations throughout the listener area and mix based on that rather than mixing based on what you hear at the mix position, that may be even more important when mixing on a 'stereo' system.

When you're using an array with a 150° horizontal beam angle, you can mix from anywhere.  But yes, we mix at the center.  However, I do see your point about listening areas.  But like I said, we only pan slightly, nothing harsh.  It works out really good.  I promise.  At any rate, it all depends on your room.

In other news, my account was deleted for whatever reason. Had to register a new one.  Interesting.

Brent

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