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First Bar Install: Part 1
ThomasKielhofner:
I have to agree with Ned; If you have some ideas and questions about them that's fine, but if you need a complete system designed you should really consult a local professional to handle it for you. I can give you some suggestions though.
I would look at something powered and simple for your main speakers, like a pair of K12's or K10's. You will want monitors, on your budget you could do something inexpensive like Yamaha BR series or similar and a small QSC or Crown amp to power them. A small rack mountable mixer would work well for low channel count shows like you describe, maybe the soundcraft mfxi series or allen & heath mix wiz. A small dmx show controller and four or five smaller american dj or chauvet par cans should take up whats left of your budget. That leaves you still needing mics, a rack for the mixer/amp, cables, power distribution, and whatever else I left out.
Like I said, from what it sounds like you should consult a local pro to handle the system design and install though. They would probably set up a package deal with you, and be able to give you a little bit of a discount on some of the product.
And when it comes to flying speakers don't just go buy some off the shelf hardware and use your handyman skills to hang speakers and lighting. This is where you really need to get a professional to do the work because you will be held liable if it falls.
Kurt Stephens:
--- Quote from: Ned Ward on January 25, 2011, 01:04:03 AM ---If you're asking these kinds of questions and don't understand power or have insurance and the knowledge on how to correctly fly ("hang") speakers safely, you should walk. If you'd like to remain friends with this owner, walk now and have him hire an experienced install contractor.
It's also a bit presumptuous to ask blindly the forum folks to do your job. If you have plans for the install, then feel free to suggest them and ask for comments, but don't ask for free consulting.
Again, based on the questions and paucity of responses, no one wants to touch this for a) liability; b) doing your job; c) both.
--- End quote ---
I do have commercial liability insurance. The plan was made for this type of matter. My family owns a Law firm - I understand this.
I am not an electrician and would consult those in the know for that matter.
I do not want anyone here to do my job - I am getting opinions on how other people would approach it and what questions they would ask. Remember this is my first job doing this so go easy. I'm aware that I can and may need to hire someone else.
The bar owner knows my limitations as well and his expectations are very low. My Law firm represents him and his bar.
I'd like to just throw some ideas around on what might work and what might not - thats the whole basis of a Forum.
Ivan Beaver:
Have you priced in things like: Install labor-training on system operation-warranty (how are you going to cover costs for repairs/labor if something needs servicing)?
You are going to need mics, stands, DI's, cables etc etc. Those can add up quickly.
I assume you have determined the coverage needs of the loudspeakers and are choosing them based on those needs.
Brad Weber:
--- Quote from: Kurt Malkames on January 25, 2011, 09:13:25 AM ---My Law firm represents him and his bar.
--- End quote ---
That could be interesting if there ever was any issue.
I'm surprised nobody has asked about the ceiling height and construction, but that would be useful to know. And speaking of ceiling, are you looking at aspects such as whether you may need to use any plenum or riser rated cabling?
I would address the power issues right away. It's not clear if there is an Architect involved but somebody is probably coordinating the design and creating construction documents, you want to make sure to coordinate with them as soon as practical. If you come up with additions or changes late in the process you won't be making any friends and may not get what you want.
Just to reinforce Ivan's point, does your responsibility end when you walk out after installing everything or will you incur some ongoing responsibility and liability? That may factor into your costs. And since you want to do this right don't forget about things like labeling all the wires with that labeling reflected on the system drawings that you leave for the Owner.
By the time you account for the costs of not only the main equipment but also of all the associated cabling and cables, connectors, hardware, stands, an equipment rack an so on as well as anything for your effort and liability, will $4,000 cover providing something with which you'd want to be associated? If you're willing to do this at a loss for the experience and reference or due to your friendship then that is a decision for you to make, but remember that any resulting references may be based on the belief that you could provide similar results for the same cost. Otherwise, you may want to first consider the more fixed costs and see where that leaves you on the items and work that is more flexible.
Kurt Stephens:
--- Quote from: Ivan Beaver on January 25, 2011, 12:23:01 PM ---Have you priced in things like: Install labor-training on system operation-warranty (how are you going to cover costs for repairs/labor if something needs servicing)?
You are going to need mics, stands, DI's, cables etc etc. Those can add up quickly.
I assume you have determined the coverage needs of the loudspeakers and are choosing them based on those needs.
--- End quote ---
Comments much appreciated.
training isn't really to necessary since it will pretty much be one of two people using it. If something needs servicing the cost is covered by the owner. When I am done, it's all his.
Things are definitely going to add up quickly, but he really isn't asking much of this system. I've made him aware that his $4K might not go very far.
Directivity has been considered.
Let it be known that at one point he said to me "hey just pick out some JBLs an amp and a mic for me" His standards are very low and he has no clue what a real professional level install entails. I think anything more than some junk speakers and a mic would please him. Of course, I've got to be thinking beyond just him.
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