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First Bar Install: Part 1

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Kurt Stephens:
I will be doing a somewhat small sound and lighting install for a friend of mine's bar come this May. It is very important to me that I do things right the first time, and gain some rep as well not only with the owner but locally as well. This is my first real install.

Here are some of the details that bar owner specified (he knows little about audio):

Install type: Permanent as opposed to mobile
Budget: Max of $4,000 (he will not increase this, and won't like going over).
Lighting: Yes, mostly low-intensity wash lighting for small jazz bands.
Music: Mostly Jazz or solo players, "soft" music.
Detail: If he brings in a DJ or larger group he will tell them to bring their own system.
Area: 26ft by 60ft with the small stage in the corner. Bar island is centrally located on one side of wall extending outward into middle. Pool tables are on the other side of the bar island from the stage.

I have attached the floorplans.

#1 What additional questions do I need to ask him?

#2 How do I start approaching this install?

#3 What are some of your initial ideas? (do I need stage monitors, what kind of lighting, how do I cover the whole area, should I aim to cover the whole area, talent-accessible mixing boards etc...)

#4 What are things to definitely avoid in this situation?

Again, this is extremely important to me as it is my first real install and I do not want to disappoint. I will be posting this in multiple parts as I get closer to his due date and as I research more.

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Paul Lipp:
I would keep this simple, no need for overkill in any area.

As for lighting, LEDs are sorta out of your budget, unless you want budget lights? Conventional par cans are inexpensive and will cover the area, however power may be a concern, and they give off a lot of heat... something to think about. Lighting could be controlled via a computer or simple dmx light controller.

Is there any existing sound that will be used? Are there mics and cables present, or is this a fresh install of the complete audio system? Are any tv's being incorporated into this system, or audio feed from existing video system.

I would write down the needs of the venue and work it from there..
What output level are you expecting, are you only building for jazz/solo or will it need to be capable of doing a small rock band, etc.
I would assume monitors are needed if you have any live music acts.

I would put a focus on power to ensure you have adaquite as well as if an outside provider comes in, they can connect their equipment in without tripping breakers.. Maybe have a contractor put in a dedicated disconnent and power connections on stage that are not tied into anything else but for stage power.

This seems like a pretty straight forward install.. other little things that come to my head are, how high is the stage, is it portable or permanent, cant you place anything below it if need be, what is ceiling height, and make up..

How are the acoustics? maybe it would be wise to focus on treating acoustic issues, instead of having to fight it, and future acts fighting it.. etc.

Kurt Stephens:
These are tremendously helpful thoughts, thank you.

Lighting: I'm thinking two par cans via a small DMX controller located behind the bar. The computer controlled route might be a bit beyond their needs (or budget).

There is no existing sound whatsoever. There was a bar there previously with no sound except TVs. This is a fresh install. The TVs that will be put in do not need to have synchronicity with the sound system.

SPL requirements are low. Jazz and solo artists are the focus. He does not expect more than 3 people on average. If he does bring in a larger rock group/ higher SPL group then he will require them to provide their own sound.

Monitors are one of my biggest questions I guess. Just go with one? Maybe a single K8?

Power distribution will absolutely be a concern. I DJ at a bar regularly that has very poor power distribution and I know how frustrating it is. 20 amp three phase technically grounded etc... I will have to get more advice on this later since I am not an electrician.

Stage is not high - maybe 1ft or so. It is permanent and does not have space under it to store gear (but maybe some wires if things are done right).

Ceiling height was not specified yet, I will have to get that. The ceiling is exposed wood beams that can handle a heavy speaker sized load.

Acoustically I haven't been able to test anything out yet and may not get to (sadly) until very close to the install time (aka. when he plans to open his new bar). He wants the spec sheets with my recommended equipment before then.

Kurt Stephens:
sound compliment-wise I'm tentatively thinking:

2x flown EAW FR129z's on a QSC PLX1804 for about $2000

does this leave enough room for lighting, power stuff, processing, cabling, mics/mixer (or even a monitor)? Not sure if it does.

Ned Ward:
If you're asking these kinds of questions and don't understand power or have insurance and the knowledge on how to correctly fly ("hang") speakers safely, you should walk. If you'd like to remain friends with this owner, walk now and have him hire an experienced install contractor.


It's also a bit presumptuous to ask blindly the forum folks to do your job. If you have plans for the install, then feel free to suggest them and ask for comments, but don't ask for free consulting.


Again, based on the questions and paucity of responses, no one wants to touch this for a) liability; b) doing your job; c) both.

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