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[Jason Gonzalez]

Hey, everyone.  I'm a newbie to running a P.A., and I've got a ton of questions  to ask.  But let me start with this one....

I was running out of channels on a PreSonus 16.4.2, so I went out and bought a few Whirlwind IMP Combiners (2 in, 1 out).  I am trying to run two Shure Beta 98H/C mic's through each combiner, but I am not getting a signal.  The mic's work great when I run them straight to the snake, but they don't seem to get a signal to the board when I run them through the combiners.

Does anyone have any ideas what I could be doing wrong?

-Jason

[Mark Chrysostom]

Without doing the research, I would guess that the IMP does not pass phantom power.

Or something else to do with phantom power.

[Dave Bednarski]

I was running out of channels on a PreSonus 16.4.2, so I went out and bought a few Whirlwind IMP Combiners (2 in, 1 out).

Can't help you with your specific technical problem but have you considered sub mixing part of your mix and sending it to the 16.4.2 as an alternative to the combiner? 

I use a 16.4.2 often with an oldies band that does alot of bar gigs so I can stay light and compact.  Usually the 4 toms are mixed on an Allen Heath racked below and sent it up as one.  It free's up 3 on top.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/feb31st/5950387926/in/photostream/

[Jason Gonzalez]

Jared, I figure it has something to do with phantom power, too.
However, in my limited knowledge of live sound, I just assumed that the phantom power voltage is applied to the mic signal at the board.
Still, I've tried it with and without phantom power.

Dave, the submix is a great idea, and I'm already using an 8-channel submix board for some wireless mics.
The scenario is that I can only haul around a small rig, so the SKB case I bought limits me to smaller boards.  With the wireless mic's and the submix board, I'm already out of room in my rig.

[Steve Hurt]

Hey, everyone.  I'm a newbie to running a P.A., and I've got a ton of questions  to ask.  But let me start with this one....

I was running out of channels on a PreSonus 16.4.2, so I went out and bought a few Whirlwind IMP Combiners (2 in, 1 out).  I am trying to run two Shure Beta 98H/C mic's through each combiner, but I am not getting a signal.  The mic's work great when I run them straight to the snake, but they don't seem to get a signal to the board when I run them through the combiners.

Does anyone have any ideas what I could be doing wrong?

-Jason

The Beta 98 will not definitely not work if phantom power is not there.
I'm pretty sure the passive transformer in the combiner will block phantom power.

Try plugging in 2 SM-57's and see if they work.
If 57's do and Beta 98's don't, that would seem to confirm that lack of phantom power is the issue

[Jason Gonzalez]

The Beta 98 will not definitely not work if phantom power is not there.
I'm pretty sure the passive transformer in the combiner will block phantom power.

Try plugging in 2 SM-57's and see if they work.
If 57's do and Beta 98's don't, that would seem to confirm that lack of phantom power is the issue

Steve, what you suggested shows me that the combiners do work.  I plugged in two 57's, and boom...got a signal.

Damn!

So the combiners won't work even though I have phantom power at the board?  Why would that be?
Again, I'm new to this, so I'm trying to make sense of this, and maybe I'm thinking of this the opposite way.
When the phantom power is turned on, I thought the voltage was used to power the signal itself?
Am I wrong....does it actually power the microphone?

[Patrick Tracy]

So the combiners won't work even though I have phantom power at the board?  Why would that be?
Again, I'm new to this, so I'm trying to make sense of this, and maybe I'm thinking of this the opposite way.
When the phantom power is turned on, I thought the voltage was used to power the signal itself?
Am I wrong....does it actually power the microphone?

Yes, the phantom power powers the internal circuitry of the microphones with DC. A transformer won't pass DC and so blocks phantom power.

[Jason Gonzalez]

Yes, the phantom power powers the internal circuitry of the microphones with DC. A transformer won't pass DC and so blocks phantom power.

Patrick, thanks for the definitive answer.

Man!  Do you have any suggestions for me?  I know that one sure way to get this work in my favor would be to get new mic's that don't need phantom power.  (What are "non-phantom powered" mic's called....dynamic mic's?)

As with most everyone, the organization I work for that uses the PA is limited on budget.  They invested their microphone money into 10 of these Shure Beta 98's.  Using the Whirlwind Combiners saves 5 channels on the board, which are necessary for the addition of other mic'ed instruments.

[Steve Hurt]

Patrick, thanks for the definitive answer.

Man!  Do you have any suggestions for me?  I know that one sure way to get this work in my favor would be to get new mic's that don't need phantom power.  (What are "non-phantom powered" mic's called....dynamic mic's?)

As with most everyone, the organization I work for that uses the PA is limited on budget.  They invested their microphone money into 10 of these Shure Beta 98's.  Using the Whirlwind Combiners saves 5 channels on the board, which are necessary for the addition of other mic'ed instruments.

Get external phantom power supplies:
Here is an example that will power 4 mics:
http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=22062&Category=Recording_Accessories
Mic -> phantom power box -> combiner -> board


If you get the one in the link I attached, you need to buy the power supply/wall wart for it as well.
(yes, the power supply needs a power supply!) 
They should include it in the price since it won't work without it, but the ad says it's sold separately

[Ned Ward]

Or cut back on what you're mic'ing. If you can give us your input list and size of venue, you may find that not everything needs to be mic'd. Your mixer doesn't have the ability to take other inputs digitally unless you get another Studiolive

[ProSoundWeb Community]