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Author Topic: using Whirlwind IMP Combiner  (Read 13443 times)

Luke Robinson

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Re: using Whirlwind IMP Combiner
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2011, 11:30:32 pm »

Try just using a simple Y cable with two XLR female and one XLR male it should do the trick. There is no transformer but that should not really hurt anything.
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Patrick Tracy

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Re: using Whirlwind IMP Combiner
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2011, 11:41:59 pm »

Patrick, thanks for the definitive answer.

Man!  Do you have any suggestions for me?  I know that one sure way to get this work in my favor would be to get new mic's that don't need phantom power.  (What are "non-phantom powered" mic's called....dynamic mic's?)

As with most everyone, the organization I work for that uses the PA is limited on budget.  They invested their microphone money into 10 of these Shure Beta 98's.  Using the Whirlwind Combiners saves 5 channels on the board, which are necessary for the addition of other mic'ed instruments.

Aside from oddball mics like the Blue Ball, dynamic mics don't require phantom power. I see four options:

A. Get external phantom supplies.

B. Swap the 98s for dynamic mics.

C. Get a submixer.

D. Get a board that has the inputs you need.

The first three options are less than optimal, but may be workable. The fourth option is by far the best one in the long run.

Jason Gonzalez

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Re: using Whirlwind IMP Combiner
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2011, 01:12:44 am »

Thank you, gentlemen, for the great suggestions.

It looks like the external phantom power supplies are the best option.  What I really need is a bigger board, but as I mentioned earlier, the SKB GigRig I have to work with cannot fit a bigger board.

I am using powered speakers, so I don't have amps taking up rack space.  However, I do have 8 wireless mic receivers and a distribution center that take up the bottom portion of the available rack space.  Those receivers run to an 8 channel submix board that take up the top part of the available rack space. 
...all that to say that I don't have the space to add yet another submix board.

Looking into replacing the condensers with dynamic mic's could work, but we already invested in condensers that we've used for 2 years.  So, it's not like I can take them back

Does anyone have any other phantom power supplies they can recommend?  Thanks, Steve, for the recommendation on the Peavey units.
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Ned Ward

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Re: using Whirlwind IMP Combiner
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2011, 01:29:54 am »

another thought - for this price it's definitely worth trying. 1 Rack space, 6 Mic inputs, each with its own individual phantom switch, mixes down to dual mono:

http://www.audiopile.net/products/Electronics/ML620E/ML-620E_cutsheet.shtml
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Sam Zuckerman

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Re: using Whirlwind IMP Combiner
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2011, 01:43:28 am »

How much rack space do you have left? There are some single rack unit mixers ranging from 4-8 channels. We use a few of them where I work: though not as sub-mixers.

What are you doing with 10 beta 98s? As mentioned above, an input list and size of venue could help us solve your problem better. Maybe there are other things that could be sub-mixed/combined or not mic'd at all.
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Jason Gonzalez

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Re: using Whirlwind IMP Combiner
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2011, 11:06:20 am »

Sorry, I meant to provide some of that info.

I work with/organize a classical mallet percussion ensemble that plays outdoor festivals and concerts.  The group is comprised of:

1. five 4.3 octave marimbas -- each uses two Beta 98's mounted to the frame underneath the bars.  (we use two to cover the length of the keyboard)
2. five 3 octave vibraphones -- each one uses one Beta 98
3. two synth's
4. four timpani -- using two AT2021 condensers
5. eight wireless mic's -- these run to an 8 channel submix board...these mic's are used for auxiliary woodwind instruments

We simply grew more than we'd planned.  Percussion instruments are not very loud, especially on windy days.

We purchased the combiners (2 in, 1 out) for the marimba microphones in attempts to free up some channels on the board.  I don't want to give up the control that having two separate mic's offers, but I just don't have the room on the board.

The board, submix board, and a Furman take up all of the rack space I have in the SKB Gig Rig.  I have the 8 wireless mic's with distribution centers taking up all of the rack space in the Expander available for the Gig Rig.  I can assure you that I don't have any more rack space.

Again, thanks for the help.  Any suggestions?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 11:27:47 am by Jason Gonzalez »
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: using Whirlwind IMP Combiner
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2011, 11:20:19 am »

Sorry, I meant to provide some of that info.

I work with/organize a classical mallet percussion ensemble that plays outdoor festivals and concerts.  The group is comprised of:

1. five 4.3 octave marimbas -- each uses two Beta 98's mounted to the frame underneath the bars.  (we use two to cover the length of the keyboard)
2. five 4 octave vibraphones -- each one uses one Beta 98
3. two synth's
4. four timpani -- using two AT2021 condensers
5. eight wireless mic's -- these run to an 8 channel submix board...these mic's are used for auxiliary woodwind instruments

We simply grew more than we'd planned.  Percussion instruments are not very loud, especially on windy days.

We purchased the combiners (2 in, 1 out) for the marimba microphones in attempts to free up some channels on the board.  I don't want to give up the control that having two separate mic's offers, but I just don't have the room on the board.

The board, submix board, and a Furman take up all of the rack space I have in the SKB Gig Rig.  I have the 8 wireless mic's with distribution centers taking up all of the rack space in the Expander available for the Gig Rig.  I can assure you that I don't have any more rack space.

Again, thanks for the help.  Any suggestions?

8 channels w/phantom
1 rack space

http://www.rolls.com/pdf/M_RM82.pdf
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Jason Gonzalez

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Re: using Whirlwind IMP Combiner
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2011, 01:20:49 pm »

8 channels w/phantom
1 rack space

http://www.rolls.com/pdf/M_RM82.pdf

Thanks again for all of the help.  Would just like to remind you all that I am new to this and still figuring some of this out.
So far, everything makes sense.  I think I know just enough to be dangerous...ha ha!

I have learned something new through this thread about mic combiners--that they don't pass phantom power.  Not only did I not anticipate this being an issue, but I had no idea that phantom power supplies even existed.

Do phantom power supplies exist in smaller units other than rack units?  All of the combiners are mounted on the instruments, and the cables go from there to the snake (the board is about 50 feet away).  It would be a lot "cleaner" if I could provide the phantom power to the condensers before they are connected to the combiner, so that I can then just run the output from the combiner to the appropriate channel on the snake.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 01:34:13 pm by Jason Gonzalez »
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Mark Chrysostom

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Re: using Whirlwind IMP Combiner
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2011, 01:45:39 pm »

There are small phantom power units available, like 2"x2"x1". But you will need one to power each microphone, and each of those will need AC power (probably provided by a wall wart). Horribly messy solution.

Slim it down to one mic per instrument and see what happens.
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Jason Gonzalez

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Re: using Whirlwind IMP Combiner
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2011, 01:55:52 pm »

There are small phantom power units available, like 2"x2"x1". But you will need one to power each microphone, and each of those will need AC power (probably provided by a wall wart). Horribly messy solution.

Slim it down to one mic per instrument and see what happens.

Man, I was afraid of that.  I was hoping I wouldn't read those words.

But you're right, Jared.  I've got nothing to lose in trying to run just one mic. The physical range of the marimba is pretty wide (approx. 6 feet long), so I don't think one condenser mic placed in the "undercarriage" of the instrument would be a wide enough field to capture the notes and the very top or the ones at the very bottom.

Maybe I need to experiment with different mic placement.  In case anyone is wondering why I mounted the Beta 98's under the bars it's because it helps keep them from being exposed to wind and sometimes rain.  I'd love to mount them over the bars, but the wind was a nightmare when we did that for an outdoor gig.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 02:02:44 pm by Jason Gonzalez »
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Re: using Whirlwind IMP Combiner
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2011, 01:55:52 pm »


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