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Author Topic: Upgrading software on digital mixers (Yamaha)  (Read 3906 times)

kristianjohnsen

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Upgrading software on digital mixers (Yamaha)
« on: August 04, 2011, 05:02:40 pm »

The previously discussed PM1D doesn't have the latest software update and I'm contemplating upgrading but it all seems a little "scary" to me.

Yes, I have read the manual - but I have never tried anything similar before and I really don't want to "brick" my mixer.

I remember when I first got into the whole Studio Manager thing and it all seemed a little difficult to get going (I remember assigning MIDI ports for the first time and how unfamiliar that felt) while now it all seems super-easy and familiar that I have done it dozens of times.

So is the upgrade procedure something to be afraid of?  Can someone that has done it give me a few pointers on things to watch out for?  Obviously I'll be following the manual to the spot on this, but I'm thinking of "special tricks" like, I don't know, turning off the Windows firewall or whatever - stuff that somehow doesn't make it into the manual that still is pretty basic to someone who has experience doing it.

Thank you in advance for your time and help.
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Upgrading software on digital mixers (Yamaha)
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2011, 05:13:55 pm »

The previously discussed PM1D doesn't have the latest software update and I'm contemplating upgrading but it all seems a little "scary" to me.

Yes, I have read the manual - but I have never tried anything similar before and I really don't want to "brick" my mixer.

I remember when I first got into the whole Studio Manager thing and it all seemed a little difficult to get going (I remember assigning MIDI ports for the first time and how unfamiliar that felt) while now it all seems super-easy and familiar that I have done it dozens of times.

So is the upgrade procedure something to be afraid of?  Can someone that has done it give me a few pointers on things to watch out for?  Obviously I'll be following the manual to the spot on this, but I'm thinking of "special tricks" like, I don't know, turning off the Windows firewall or whatever - stuff that somehow doesn't make it into the manual that still is pretty basic to someone who has experience doing it.

Thank you in advance for your time and help.
I haven't upgraded a PM1D, but have upgraded my 01vs a couple times.  Once you get a good software connection - drivers all working etc. the rest shouldn't be too hard if the mixer is healthy.  You could improve your odds of this going smoothly by:
1. Do a reset of the console - delete all scenes and user data, and run through the self test if you can find one.  This will reduce the chances of either a hardware issue (assuming the self test passes) or a software issue since you've erased the console.

2. Put the computer and the mixer on a UPS during the update.

You probably won't have any trouble, but if you're worried these things may be good to do.
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: Upgrading software on digital mixers (Yamaha)
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2011, 07:44:03 pm »

I just dug into the manual again and immidiately stumbeled upon a few problems:

System Requirements:

•Windows 95 (OSR2 or later), Windows 98 (including Second
Edition), Windows Me, Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 6a or
later), Windows 2000, or Windows XP Home Edition/
Professional
• RS-232C cable (cross-connected)
• A device with a PCMCIA Type II card slot (A system that
enables you to copy downloaded files to the memory card)


Does that mean I can't use Windows7 and a USB cable like I had hoped to?

Where can I even buy a PCMCIA slot reader for one of my computers?


I just got reminded of how aged this console actually is...
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Upgrading software on digital mixers (Yamaha)
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2011, 09:07:33 pm »

I just dug into the manual again and immidiately stumbeled upon a few problems:

System Requirements:

•Windows 95 (OSR2 or later), Windows 98 (including Second
Edition), Windows Me, Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 6a or
later), Windows 2000, or Windows XP Home Edition/
Professional
• RS-232C cable (cross-connected)
• A device with a PCMCIA Type II card slot (A system that
enables you to copy downloaded files to the memory card)

Does that mean I can't use Windows7 and a USB cable like I had hoped to?

Where can I even buy a PCMCIA slot reader for one of my computers?

I just got reminded of how aged this console actually is...

AFAIK you in fact do need an RS232 port. With PM-1D you need to update each of the components in the system, and the I/O frames only have RS232. I don't remember off the top of my head if the CS-1D and the DSP-1D have USB ports.

Updating firmware on a PM-1D is a much bigger deal than it is on any of the other Yamaha consoles.

The PCMCIA card issue is the same as PM5D. It is how you easily store shows when you do not have a computer hooked up to the console. You should be able to find a used Windows laptop that has a PCMCIA slot if your's doesn't have one.

You can get PCMCIA adapters for Compact Flash memory online cheap. If you can't find a PCMCIA reader for your computer, you should be able to find a Compact Flash reader. Just take the card out one adapter and put it in the other as you move from console to computer.

Mac
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: Upgrading software on digital mixers (Yamaha)
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2011, 06:55:00 am »

AFAIK you in fact do need an RS232 port. With PM-1D you need to update each of the components in the system, and the I/O frames only have RS232. I don't remember off the top of my head if the CS-1D and the DSP-1D have USB ports.

Updating firmware on a PM-1D is a much bigger deal than it is on any of the other Yamaha consoles.

The PCMCIA card issue is the same as PM5D. It is how you easily store shows when you do not have a computer hooked up to the console. You should be able to find a used Windows laptop that has a PCMCIA slot if your's doesn't have one.

You can get PCMCIA adapters for Compact Flash memory online cheap. If you can't find a PCMCIA reader for your computer, you should be able to find a Compact Flash reader. Just take the card out one adapter and put it in the other as you move from console to computer.

Mac

Thanks again for your time, Mac.

According to some drawings in the manual the computer can communicate with the CS1D and the DSP1D via RS-232C and they can pass the correct info on to AI8/AO8 and DIO8 units via D-Sub 68pin. 
Also, the computer can talk directly to a DIO8 unit via RS-232C, but there is no indication that a computer can talk directly to an AI8/AO8 unit.

First of all, is D-sub 68pin the same as those SCSI connectors the system normally uses?

Do you know if it it possible to update the CS1D and DSP1D via USB?  I'm guessing if they can be remote controlled via this port that this would stand to reason, even if I find no mention of it in the manual.  Those two units Do in fact have a USB connector.

Lastly, after reading the manual I just don't quite get why I need the computer to be able to read the PCMCIA card.  I have a card but I have initialized both the board's memories and the card's memories as I didn't have a need for the seller's old shows and I haven't started saving any custom "templates" yet.  My understanding is that I can save shows later on a USB-connected laptop, like I do now with Studio Manager and my other Yamaha boards?  I have downloaded PM1D manager but not synced it with the desk yet.  I do love how the software is WYSIWYG, great help in learning what features the desk has.


If anyone feels like helping me dechypher the manual, here's the link:

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/downloads/firm_soft/pm1d/system_software/pm1d_sys_upgrade_guide_en.pdf

Edit:  Spelling and added USB info.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 06:58:23 am by kristianjohnsen »
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Upgrading software on digital mixers (Yamaha)
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2011, 12:36:42 pm »

According to some drawings in the manual the computer can communicate with the CS1D and the DSP1D via RS-232C and they can pass the correct info on to AI8/AO8 and DIO8 units via D-Sub 68pin. 
Also, the computer can talk directly to a DIO8 unit via RS-232C, but there is no indication that a computer can talk directly to an AI8/AO8 unit.

First of all, is D-sub 68pin the same as those SCSI connectors the system normally uses?

Do you know if it it possible to update the CS1D and DSP1D via USB?  I'm guessing if they can be remote controlled via this port that this would stand to reason, even if I find no mention of it in the manual.  Those two units Do in fact have a USB connector.

Lastly, after reading the manual I just don't quite get why I need the computer to be able to read the PCMCIA card.  I have a card but I have initialized both the board's memories and the card's memories as I didn't have a need for the seller's old shows and I haven't started saving any custom "templates" yet.  My understanding is that I can save shows later on a USB-connected laptop, like I do now with Studio Manager and my other Yamaha boards?  I have downloaded PM1D manager but not synced it with the desk yet.  I do love how the software is WYSIWYG, great help in learning what features the desk has.

I have never personally done the upgrade, the shop has always taken care of that before we build the show console. I just know that we have had AI8 and AO8 frames that had the wrong firmware for the rest of the console, and the tech had to take them away to update them.

As far as the memory card, I like to be able to read and write to it from my computer because it is a much simpler more robust method than using PM-1D Editor online with the console. The card makes it very east to transport show files to and from the console. It is not however necessary to be able to read and write to the card from your computer. A PCMCIA adapter with a 4GB Compact Flash card can hold hundreds of very complex shows. Most shows will be under 150k, the most complex show I ever did, and it was the biggest file the trainer had seen, was "Blast" which was 1.8M. That was over 100 inputs and almost 200 scenes, and lots of embedded midi control. I think the Grammys file he was showing off was 1.2M.

What version of the firmware do you have? How old is it? If you don't have to be able to load other people's files it may not be necessary to update. If you do have to load other people's files it is a good idea to have the latest version.

Mac
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Andrew Makinson

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Re: Upgrading software on digital mixers (Yamaha)
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2011, 06:58:15 pm »

According to some drawings in the manual the computer can communicate with the CS1D and the DSP1D via RS-232C and they can pass the correct info on to AI8/AO8 and DIO8 units via D-Sub 68pin. 
Also, the computer can talk directly to a DIO8 unit via RS-232C, but there is no indication that a computer can talk directly to an AI8/AO8 unit.

First of all, is D-sub 68pin the same as those SCSI connectors the system normally uses?

Do you know if it it possible to update the CS1D and DSP1D via USB?  I'm guessing if they can be remote controlled via this port that this would stand to reason, even if I find no mention of it in the manual.  Those two units Do in fact have a USB connector.

Lastly, after reading the manual I just don't quite get why I need the computer to be able to read the PCMCIA card.  I have a card but I have initialized both the board's memories and the card's memories as I didn't have a need for the seller's old shows and I haven't started saving any custom "templates" yet.  My understanding is that I can save shows later on a USB-connected laptop, like I do now with Studio Manager and my other Yamaha boards?  I have downloaded PM1D manager but not synced it with the desk yet.  I do love how the software is WYSIWYG, great help in learning what features the desk has.

I have never personally done the upgrade, the shop has always taken care of that before we build the show console. I just know that we have had AI8 and AO8 frames that had the wrong firmware for the rest of the console, and the tech had to take them away to update them.

As far as the memory card, I like to be able to read and write to it from my computer because it is a much simpler more robust method than using PM-1D Editor online with the console. The card makes it very east to transport show files to and from the console. It is not however necessary to be able to read and write to the card from your computer. A PCMCIA adapter with a 4GB Compact Flash card can hold hundreds of very complex shows. Most shows will be under 150k, the most complex show I ever did, and it was the biggest file the trainer had seen, was "Blast" which was 1.8M. That was over 100 inputs and almost 200 scenes, and lots of embedded midi control. I think the Grammys file he was showing off was 1.2M.

What version of the firmware do you have? How old is it? If you don't have to be able to load other people's files it may not be necessary to update. If you do have to load other people's files it is a good idea to have the latest version.

Mac

I did the firmware upgrade a couple of times.  IIRC you do need to be able to connect  the PCMCIA card to the computer in order to put some files on the card for the upgrade.  I think this is part of upgrading the screen software specifically.  I used CF with an adapter exclusively and never had any issues doing so. 

We only had AI8 and AO8 and I connected to them through the DSP1D via the 68 pin cable that was already in place.  I also connected directly with the RS232 port until realizing that that just meant another step.  I don't think that the USB will work to update the firmware.  For many years the USB port on the CS1D and DSP1Ds did nothing at all. 

On of the times that I updated I forget to save my latest template scene and the active scene came back up when the upgrade was finished saving me some headache.  Of course all the other scenes were gone, so backup...

It has been about 2 years since I've upgrade a Pm1d, but that's how I remember it.  If you fail to upgrade a component then the system won't work and you'll just have to go back through it.  It'll make you nervous and it will take some time, but you aren't likely to end up with a brick.

I think that with using the Manager and Windows 7 you should be running the latest version even if not loading other people's files.

I also have done the change out of the internal memory flash card and the internal battery.  You should find out how long it has been for your system and follow Yamaha's recommendations on this.

Andrew
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: Upgrading software on digital mixers (Yamaha)
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2011, 09:39:41 pm »

According to some drawings in the manual the computer can communicate with the CS1D and the DSP1D via RS-232C and they can pass the correct info on to AI8/AO8 and DIO8 units via D-Sub 68pin. 
Also, the computer can talk directly to a DIO8 unit via RS-232C, but there is no indication that a computer can talk directly to an AI8/AO8 unit.

First of all, is D-sub 68pin the same as those SCSI connectors the system normally uses?

Do you know if it it possible to update the CS1D and DSP1D via USB?  I'm guessing if they can be remote controlled via this port that this would stand to reason, even if I find no mention of it in the manual.  Those two units Do in fact have a USB connector.

Lastly, after reading the manual I just don't quite get why I need the computer to be able to read the PCMCIA card.  I have a card but I have initialized both the board's memories and the card's memories as I didn't have a need for the seller's old shows and I haven't started saving any custom "templates" yet.  My understanding is that I can save shows later on a USB-connected laptop, like I do now with Studio Manager and my other Yamaha boards?  I have downloaded PM1D manager but not synced it with the desk yet.  I do love how the software is WYSIWYG, great help in learning what features the desk has.

I have never personally done the upgrade, the shop has always taken care of that before we build the show console. I just know that we have had AI8 and AO8 frames that had the wrong firmware for the rest of the console, and the tech had to take them away to update them.

As far as the memory card, I like to be able to read and write to it from my computer because it is a much simpler more robust method than using PM-1D Editor online with the console. The card makes it very east to transport show files to and from the console. It is not however necessary to be able to read and write to the card from your computer. A PCMCIA adapter with a 4GB Compact Flash card can hold hundreds of very complex shows. Most shows will be under 150k, the most complex show I ever did, and it was the biggest file the trainer had seen, was "Blast" which was 1.8M. That was over 100 inputs and almost 200 scenes, and lots of embedded midi control. I think the Grammys file he was showing off was 1.2M.

What version of the firmware do you have? How old is it? If you don't have to be able to load other people's files it may not be necessary to update. If you do have to load other people's files it is a good idea to have the latest version.

Mac

Hi and thanks again, Mac.

I guess you could say I'm "the shop" so if this thing needs to be updated it's probably going to be done by me :-[

When the mixer is powered up it claims version 2.01 and displays a date sometime in 2005.  I guess the previous owners updated it then as well as installing the expansion to 96 channels.

This is a rare beast in Scandinavia.  As far as I can tell there are only 4 in Norway and mine is the only one intended for live audio use.  About 15ish in Sweden and maybe a few more in Denmark.  I have never seen one on a rider on my circuit, but I feel like it will cover the needs of myself and "my" techs excellently for some time to come - I'm really liking the desk so far. 
I'd be surprised if I couldn't talk the occational BE into giving it a go, too.

Unless version 2.08 has a bunch of important new functions my only real motivation for upgrading is for that day every blue moon when some big name artist visits Norway, their mixer takes a shit and my little company can swoop in and save the day.

So what do ya think?

Best regards,

Kristian




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kristianjohnsen

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Re: Upgrading software on digital mixers (Yamaha)
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2011, 09:44:24 pm »

According to some drawings in the manual the computer can communicate with the CS1D and the DSP1D via RS-232C and they can pass the correct info on to AI8/AO8 and DIO8 units via D-Sub 68pin. 
Also, the computer can talk directly to a DIO8 unit via RS-232C, but there is no indication that a computer can talk directly to an AI8/AO8 unit.

First of all, is D-sub 68pin the same as those SCSI connectors the system normally uses?

Do you know if it it possible to update the CS1D and DSP1D via USB?  I'm guessing if they can be remote controlled via this port that this would stand to reason, even if I find no mention of it in the manual.  Those two units Do in fact have a USB connector.

Lastly, after reading the manual I just don't quite get why I need the computer to be able to read the PCMCIA card.  I have a card but I have initialized both the board's memories and the card's memories as I didn't have a need for the seller's old shows and I haven't started saving any custom "templates" yet.  My understanding is that I can save shows later on a USB-connected laptop, like I do now with Studio Manager and my other Yamaha boards?  I have downloaded PM1D manager but not synced it with the desk yet.  I do love how the software is WYSIWYG, great help in learning what features the desk has.

I have never personally done the upgrade, the shop has always taken care of that before we build the show console. I just know that we have had AI8 and AO8 frames that had the wrong firmware for the rest of the console, and the tech had to take them away to update them.

As far as the memory card, I like to be able to read and write to it from my computer because it is a much simpler more robust method than using PM-1D Editor online with the console. The card makes it very east to transport show files to and from the console. It is not however necessary to be able to read and write to the card from your computer. A PCMCIA adapter with a 4GB Compact Flash card can hold hundreds of very complex shows. Most shows will be under 150k, the most complex show I ever did, and it was the biggest file the trainer had seen, was "Blast" which was 1.8M. That was over 100 inputs and almost 200 scenes, and lots of embedded midi control. I think the Grammys file he was showing off was 1.2M.

What version of the firmware do you have? How old is it? If you don't have to be able to load other people's files it may not be necessary to update. If you do have to load other people's files it is a good idea to have the latest version.

Mac

I did the firmware upgrade a couple of times.  IIRC you do need to be able to connect  the PCMCIA card to the computer in order to put some files on the card for the upgrade.  I think this is part of upgrading the screen software specifically.  I used CF with an adapter exclusively and never had any issues doing so. 

We only had AI8 and AO8 and I connected to them through the DSP1D via the 68 pin cable that was already in place.  I also connected directly with the RS232 port until realizing that that just meant another step.  I don't think that the USB will work to update the firmware.  For many years the USB port on the CS1D and DSP1Ds did nothing at all. 

On of the times that I updated I forget to save my latest template scene and the active scene came back up when the upgrade was finished saving me some headache.  Of course all the other scenes were gone, so backup...

It has been about 2 years since I've upgrade a Pm1d, but that's how I remember it.  If you fail to upgrade a component then the system won't work and you'll just have to go back through it.  It'll make you nervous and it will take some time, but you aren't likely to end up with a brick.

I think that with using the Manager and Windows 7 you should be running the latest version even if not loading other people's files.

I also have done the change out of the internal memory flash card and the internal battery.  You should find out how long it has been for your system and follow Yamaha's recommendations on this.

Andrew

Andrew, thank you for your advice - you have a lot of PM1D knowledge for sure :)

I'm still torn regarding whether to go through with an upgrade or not...

Best regards,

Kristian Johnsen

PS:  Have you ever remoted the mixer from another Yamaha board?
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Re: Upgrading software on digital mixers (Yamaha)
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2011, 09:44:24 pm »


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