Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Daniel Mullins]

Hi All,
I am new here and trying to get some advice for main speakers. My dad is a worship pastor at our church. The church has 22 year old main speakers and is going to buy new mains. The room holds about 250-300 people, it is wider than it is deep, ceiling is fairly high (20 something feet in the middle). I can get more specific in a future post on the dimensions of the room if needed.

We had a sound guy come in and give us a quote on what he thought would be best.

The speakers that he recommended are EAW  Model KF394nt.  $14,162.85 for 3 of them.  There is also an Ashly 3.6 SP speaker processor in the bid (additional $850.85).

The price range is more than the church is looking to spend, but not out of the realm of possibility. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with these speakers. I heard they are nice, but I am looking to see if they are nice enough to warrant the price.

Is there a significant drop-off in sound quality if the church goes with a setup that is less expensive? Does anyone recommend going another direction that would be economical, yet still produce good sound?

Any help is much appreciated! Thanks!

Daniel Mullins

[Tom Young]

Hi All,
I am new here and trying to get some advice for main speakers. My dad is a worship pastor at our church. The church has 22 year old main speakers and is going to buy new mains. The room holds about 250-300 people, it is wider than it is deep, ceiling is fairly high (20 something feet in the middle). I can get more specific in a future post on the dimensions of the room if needed.

We had a sound guy come in and give us a quote on what he thought would be best.

The speakers that he recommended are EAW  Model KF394nt.  $14,162.85 for 3 of them.  There is also an Ashly 3.6 SP speaker processor in the bid (additional $850.85).

The price range is more than the church is looking to spend, but not out of the realm of possibility. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with these speakers. I heard they are nice, but I am looking to see if they are nice enough to warrant the price.

Is there a significant drop-off in sound quality if the church goes with a setup that is less expensive? Does anyone recommend going another direction that would be economical, yet still produce good sound?

Any help is much appreciated! Thanks!

Daniel Mullins

The EAW KF394NT loudspeakers are probably quite good.

However; there is no way anyone here can comment on how well these will work for you (etc) without knowing lots more.

what worship style(s) does the church employ ?

how is the seating positioned in this wide sanctuary ?

are these ldspkrs to be flown ?

how will these be deployed (split apart or as a center cluster) ?

who is minding the structural safety aspects of this installation ?

does the seller include installation with the prices you mentioned ?

does the seller provide measurement and optimization for the installed loudspeakers ?

How about sound checks and other "hand holding" ?

is there a licensed electrician to install power to these ldspkrs ?

.... and the list goes on.

[Brad Weber]

Hi All,
I am new here and trying to get some advice for main speakers. My dad is a worship pastor at our church. The church has 22 year old main speakers and is going to buy new mains. The room holds about 250-300 people, it is wider than it is deep, ceiling is fairly high (20 something feet in the middle). I can get more specific in a future post on the dimensions of the room if needed.

We had a sound guy come in and give us a quote on what he thought would be best.

The speakers that he recommended are EAW  Model KF394nt.  $14,162.85 for 3 of them.  There is also an Ashly 3.6 SP speaker processor in the bid (additional $850.85).

The price range is more than the church is looking to spend, but not out of the realm of possibility. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with these speakers. I heard they are nice, but I am looking to see if they are nice enough to warrant the price.

Is there a significant drop-off in sound quality if the church goes with a setup that is less expensive? Does anyone recommend going another direction that would be economical, yet still produce good sound?

There are elements to this topic that many people may not consider or understand.  It is not just how the speakers sound but how the speaker system sounds in your space and for your application.  I do not know who your "sound guy" is or how they arrived at their recommendation but factors such as providing proper coverage of the listener area, appropriate output and response for your use, good intelligibility for spoken word and appropriate headroom and gain before feedbackand should have been considerations in any recommendation.  Safe installation and compatibility with the rest of the existing system should also have been considered.  Without knowing some of the related information such as the intended use, the physical space and any goals or desires you may have identified, there is little basis for any recommendations or comments.
 
There can also be details about the services to be provided by the company that can affect the cost and value.  If the speakers are to be flown, do the people that will be flying them have appropriate experience, certification, insurance, etc.?  What would be provided in terms of warranty, documentation and training?  What is proposed as far as tuning and optimizing the system?  Is there any conduit or other infrastructure required that might not be included in the quote offered?
 
In the case of the KF394nt there may be additional factors.  Those are powered speakers so does the bid include properly addressing power to the speakers?  They are also network controlled, so are any related network wiring and devices being provided?
 
Overall, it is often a matter of not just what equipment is being proposed but also what services are being offered and, most importantly, does what is being offered support that the overall end result will fulfill your functional, performance, quality and budgetary goals.  Unless you are simply purchasing products then those are the factors that will likely define the value of what is being offered.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Hi All,
I am new here and trying to get some advice for main speakers. My dad is a worship pastor at our church. The church has 22 year old main speakers and is going to buy new mains.
Daniel Mullins

What are these speakers?  Why do they need replacing? Were they properly positioned, powered and processed to begin with?

If they were quality units in the beginning there is at least a chance that by having them brought back to original specs they might still function up to your needs.

I have often simply repaired and repositioned older speakers to the satisfaction of a church and saved them thousands if not tens of thousands of $$$$.  It is often the case that the original install was done more with visuals in mind than acoustics, resulting in good speakers set up to FAIL because they were put where they looked good (or wouldn't be seen) rather than where they should have been positioned for maximum effect.

 

[Daniel Mullins]

I have forgotten that the art of answering a forum question is to ask ten additional questions for clarification. =)

I understand that the room acoustics are just as important if not more important than the speaker setup. I also appreciate everyone pointing out that the speakers are powered and that we need an electrician to make sure we have appropriate power. We had professionals check out the room and determine speaker placement and power needs. The price includes installation and tuning the speakers to the room. We use drums and the type of music ranges from rock to folk. We hope to run the mains between 90 and 95 dB. The old speakers are terrible and not worth rebuilding.

We believe we received a fair and accurate bid, but we are trying to get clarification on whether or not EAW KF394NT speakers are worth the loot. Let's assume that the person who did the estimate chose proper speakers for the room and has a good plan for placing them for equal coverage.

I am not worried about EAW KF394NT speakers being a good fit for the room. I am confident in the person who did the estimate. I am more curious about if there are other speakers similar to EAW KF394NT that are high quality with a lower price tag.

Does anyone have experience with EAW KF394NT speakers?
Does anyone recommend other speakers that they believe have similar sound properties to EAW KF394NT speakers that are cheaper that they swear by?
Would anyone in the audience besides experienced sound technicians be able to tell the difference between a $5,000 speaker and, say, a $2,500 speaker?

Thanks for all of the input and help!

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

"Does anyone recommend other speakers that they believe have similar sound properties to EAW KF394NT speakers that are cheaper that they swear by?
Would anyone in the audience besides experienced sound technicians be able to tell the difference between a $5,000 speaker and, say, a $2,500 speaker?"

Question #1:  Yes.

Question #2:  It depends......

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

I have forgotten that the art of answering a forum question is to ask ten additional questions for clarification. =)

The art of asking a question on a forum is to ask a narrow enough question to actually have a chance at getting a reasonable answer - in other words providing enough information so that ten followup questions aren't needed.

If you trust your installer and believe they are a good fit for the room, I would be inclined to go that way.  We can't possibly know all the reasons the installer is suggesting KF394s, and so would be giving opinions based on a partial story.  Does your installer have a plan B?  If you tell him the budget is $10K, what does he suggest?

If $15K is an out the door price for installation and tuning, I don't think that's unreasonable, and that suggests that the KF394 is quite a bit less expensive than $5000/box.

I haven't personally heard the KF394nt, but this is a Focused system, which will mean it is very well behaved.  There are certainly other choices that are cheaper, but I doubt many cheaper speakers will sound as good.

The advantage of something like a KF394nt is that a lot of the processing and tuning is already done by the manufacturer, so the installer has less to goof upoptimize.  A typical passive system such as JBL AE speakers can be made to sound reasonably good, but require amps and external processing.  In the end, they may not be tons cheaper than the EAW system recommended, and they (and most other mid-priced unpowered boxes) won't sound as good. 

What that's worth is hard to quantify - if you can't afford it, the decision is easy - you do what you have to do.  If you can afford it, then you have to think about how long you hope to use the system, and if you'll get a payback over that period.  Most people would recommend stretching the budget to get the best speakers possible since those are the cornerstone of the system and make the most difference in overall sound quality, even if you have to cut corners elsewhere in the short term. 

[Daniel Mullins]

"Does anyone recommend other speakers that they believe have similar sound properties to EAW KF394NT speakers that are cheaper that they swear by?
Would anyone in the audience besides experienced sound technicians be able to tell the difference between a $5,000 speaker and, say, a $2,500 speaker?"

Question #1:  Yes.

Question #2:  It depends......

Amazing help DICK! I am not sure what people would do without your sage advice!

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Amazing help DICK! I am not sure what people would do without your sage advice!

You really have a great sense of humor.

I don't know why you find my answers not to your benefit.  There is really quite a bit of information contained in them.  Here's the deal:

When you finally give me a simple, polite answer to my original question regarding the existing speakers, then I'll be more direct in my recommendations.  Simply know what has come to need replacing tells a good bit about what (besides the EAW's) might suffice.

But without more information and cooperation it's all just Internet jibber-jabber......

[Brad Weber]

I understand that the room acoustics are just as important if not more important than the speaker setup. I also appreciate everyone pointing out that the speakers are powered and that we need an electrician to make sure we have appropriate power. We had professionals check out the room and determine speaker placement and power needs. The price includes installation and tuning the speakers to the room. We use drums and the type of music ranges from rock to folk. We hope to run the mains between 90 and 95 dB. The old speakers are terrible and not worth rebuilding.

We believe we received a fair and accurate bid, but we are trying to get clarification on whether or not EAW KF394NT speakers are worth the loot. Let's assume that the person who did the estimate chose proper speakers for the room and has a good plan for placing them for equal coverage.

I am not worried about EAW KF394NT speakers being a good fit for the room. I am confident in the person who did the estimate. I am more curious about if there are other speakers similar to EAW KF394NT that are high quality with a lower price tag.

So to summarize, you had a professional come on site and look at your situation and you believe they did a good enough job in determining what was required that other professionals should trust their judgement.  So why aren't you trusting it?  I'm sure that sounds worse than it is intended and you may be trying to be a good steward of the church's money, however you need to either trust the recommendation made or be willing to provide others the information they need to make alternative recommendations.

Does anyone recommend other speakers that they believe have similar sound properties to EAW KF394NT speakers that are cheaper that they swear by?
Would anyone in the audience besides experienced sound technicians be able to tell the difference between a $5,000 speaker and, say, a $2,500 speaker?

Your response to Dick's comments on this was uncalled for and disrespectful, just because you may not like the answers does not make them any less valid.  Divorced of any context there may be other speakers that 'sound' similar and some of those may be less expensive, however what actually matters is whether they would work and sound similar within the context of your particular application.


There may be numerous potential options and I'm sure some people will be happy to try to 'sell' you on their personal preference or something they could potentially profit from recommending.  However the reality is that every potential alternative is going to vary in some manner and without sufficient context one cannot assess whether those variances are something that potentially negatively impact a specific application.  What particular aspects (pattern, pattern control, output, size, weight, frequency response, phase response, rigging provisions and so on) of the KF394NT are important to this application?  If some factor is critical and is not considered then that could lead to inappropriate recommendations while if a factor is not critical but is assumed to be so then that could also lead to a less than optimal response.


A comment or recommendation offered without due consideration of the application could be a disservice and potentially lead you in the wrong direction.  You are asking people to essentially second guess another professional who has been in the space and talked to you, you should either help the people you are asking to help you gain the same understanding of the situation and goals that party had or trust the recommendation they offered.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Your response to Dick's comments on this was uncalled for and disrespectful, just because you may not like the answers does not make them any less valid.

That's OK, Brad.  I'm a big boy and don't mind a little flack now and then.

It seems to me there are two kinds of posts in the "help me" realm:

1.  People actually seeking information and enlightenment and

2.  People seeking validation of their personal opinions and concepts, regardless of their lack of experience.

The first group will take in all points of view and sort things out for themselves.  The second group will almost always get testy when the replies go against their concepts/ideas.  This type of behavior is very passive-aggressive and leads down the path to "trolldom".

But it doesn't have to be.  If they can let go of the idea that anything new and outside their experience might just possibly further their knowledge and understanding, then they've gotten more help than just a simple "yes/no" answer........

[Jonathan Johnson]

With apologies to a popular financial counseling radio talk show host, "This forum is designed to provide information with regard to the subject matter covered. The information is given with the understanding that the participants are not engaging in or rendering electronic, acoustic, structural or other professional advice. Since the details of your situation are fact-dependent, you should seek additional services of a competent professional."

In other words, any advice you get here is based on the information you provide and may be incomplete or based on invalid assumptions. Perhaps you should go back to your consultant and ask if there are any less expensive options. Be sure to ask what potential negatives there are with installing something cheaper.

[Jim Le Gros]

All valid points made by Brad!

So I repeat Tom Youngs original request for more detail is the only way you'll get a more specifc answer i.e, a proposal for an alternative set of speakers to "suit" your enviroment or space.
So:

However; there is no way anyone here can comment on how well these will work for you (etc) without knowing lots more.

how is the seating positioned in this wide sanctuary ?

are these loudspeakers to be flown ?

how will these be deployed (split apart or as a center cluster) ?

who is minding the structural safety aspects of this installation ?

does the seller include installation with the prices you mentioned ?

does the seller provide measurement and optimization for the installed loudspeakers ?

Even informative photos would be of some help.
Jim.

[Daniel Mullins]

Thanks everybody for the help!

I was just pointing out that Dick's response
"Question #1:  Yes.
Question #2:  It depends......"

wasn't in the spirit of help. It just seemed like a smart aleck remark that was a waste of time to write and read. Sorry to return the favor and ruffle any feathers in the process. I am sure it is just the way forum gurus show the young pups that every aspect of the situation must be presented with the question or valid advice cannot be offered. I can understand that rationale up to a certain point, but I do think one can compare 2 products based on the products themselves. People can give advice they have about their experiences with the durability and quality of one product compared to other products they have used or the reputation of one company compared to another. That is all I was trying to get. More of a casual conversation compared to going into blueprints.

Some of the other responses had nuggets of helpfulness and I appreciate those.

Many of the questions I did answer. The speakers will be flown, and the installation would be covered in the price along with structural safety and optimization. I appreciate people looking out for the safety of others, but professionals are going to install everything. The church is not attempting to install anything independently. I prefer to keep the conversation about speaker quality as each post would be 10 pages long if we got into the location of every painting on the walls, what the chairs are made out of, what the electrical diagram is for the building, etc.

I am inexperienced when it comes to pro live audio, but I think a person can trust that an estimate will produce excellent sound while also seeing if the experiences of others suggest that good sound can be had for a lower price. The intent of the original post was not to get a completely new estimate and go through every dimension of the room. It was basically to ask, if anyone had experience with EAW KF394nt speakers, and if so, have you come across another speaker that is similar, but cheaper that produces good sound. Maybe sound that doesn't quite match the KF394nt, but one that is the next best alternative. Yes we can ask the company that gave us the estimate, but I also wanted to also get the opinions of others.

I did not think it is unreasonable to ask if another speaker has similar quality to KF394nt for a smaller price from the standpoint of performance and quality and value, but by the responses I have received I think I would have to provide the kitchen sink to get an opinion. I apologize for wasting everyone’s time and I do appreciate everyone holding back their advice in an attempt to not steer us wrong. We will probably just pony up for the KF394nt’s as nobody seems to have any haterade towards those.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Thanks everybody for the help!

I was just pointing out that Dick's response
"Question #1:  Yes.
Question #2:  It depends......"

wasn't in the spirit of help.

You are unfortunately mistaken.  Those answers are correct, just very, very short.  As others have pointed out (again and again), the answers you receive are dependent on the information provided.  Without comprehensive or pertinent information the answers will be either short and general or of questionable efficacy. 

Answer #1:  Yes, there are certainly other speakers.  But to recommend one over another would require a complete and total familiarity with all the factors which have been mentioned.  It's not just "apples to apples" but "orchard to orchard, climate to climate" so to speak.  The particular speakers cannot be evaluated removed from the acoustic environment, the projected use, the expected delivery, etc, etc, etc. 

So simply naming brands/models is futile. 

Answer #2:  Again, the answer you need is dependent on your providing adequate and proper information.....something which you, as an avowed sound novice, are unlikely to be able to provide in addition to the difficulty of conveying such information in an Internet Forum format.

To quote you directly, "I do think one can compare 2 products based on the products themselves."

No.  It has been pointed out again and again that you cannot evaluate products in and of themselves but must consider them in the specific situation in which they will be used and for what purpose.  There is an outside chance that if "one" is an experienced professional some chance may exist in out-of-context comparison.  However, you are not that "one".     

It has been said that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".  Taking recommendations from here with the limited context you have provided means that you'll have "a little knowledge".  The person who will suffer for this (first of all) is the poor schlub who is having to deal with you on this job.  Beyond that it is the community you "serve" who are shelling out the "hard-earned" to pay for this......and any mistakes you make.  You will more than likely increase the over-all cost of the job for several reasons including the extra time and effort spent in disabusing you of your errant notions.

I for one do not want to give you the ammunition to suborn the consultant with whom you're dealing .  I will continue to provide practical advice garnered from over 50 years of experience, both with sound equipment and (unfortunately) customers from heck.

And for a succinct and more polite statement of the problems arising from your methods, please re-read and meditate on Jonathan Johnsons excellent reply of 7-27.

[Eric Totherow]

Hi All,
I am new here and trying to get some advice for main speakers. My dad is a worship pastor at our church. The church has 22 year old main speakers and is going to buy new mains. The room holds about 250-300 people, it is wider than it is deep, ceiling is fairly high (20 something feet in the middle). I can get more specific in a future post on the dimensions of the room if needed.

We had a sound guy come in and give us a quote on what he thought would be best.

The speakers that he recommended are EAW  Model KF394nt.  $14,162.85 for 3 of them.  There is also an Ashly 3.6 SP speaker processor in the bid (additional $850.85).

The price range is more than the church is looking to spend, but not out of the realm of possibility. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with these speakers. I heard they are nice, but I am looking to see if they are nice enough to warrant the price.

Is there a significant drop-off in sound quality if the church goes with a setup that is less expensive? Does anyone recommend going another direction that would be economical, yet still produce good sound?

Any help is much appreciated! Thanks!

Daniel Mullins

I was scanning forums about a different EAW box and found this thread- I'm a few years late, but I just couldn't believe the responses. I completely understood what you were asking.

Though you have probably made your decision, the EAW KF394NT is a great box! Quite punchy for a box with duel 10" tuned drivers. Very clean, clear, and great with transients. It's almost as good as it gets for short to mid throw stuff.

The Meyer UPA-1p has very similar specs in terms of dispersion and SPL and can be found in great shape used for around $3,000 a box. Right around $4,700 new. Though, if you weren't ground stacking subs, you would have to fly a pretty potent sub to keep up with the hi mid boxes in a full space loading condition.

Also, there are some used L Acoustics boxes on the market that compare with the specs of the EAW KF's- L Acoustics 112XT box with controller and amp built in one.. I've seen the speakers used for around $2,200($3,400 new), and amp/controller unit for around $4,500. So, after shipping, that equates to around $4,500 a side.

In my experience, I believe people can tell the difference between consumer and pro grade equipment. There is much more to it, but, yeah.

I'm a few years late, but I had to post- partly because everyone's responses aggravated the heck out of me. With a little critical thinking, I understood that you were asking about the box, not the state of acoustics in the room I'm sure these guys are smart, but sheesh.

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

I was scanning forums about a different EAW box and found this thread- I'm a few years late, but I just couldn't believe the responses. I completely understood what you were asking.

Though you have probably made your decision, the EAW KF394NT is a great box! Quite punchy for a box with duel 10" tuned drivers. Very clean, clear, and great with transients. It's almost as good as it gets for short to mid throw stuff.

The Meyer UPA-1p has very similar specs in terms of dispersion and SPL and can be found in great shape used for around $3,000 a box. Right around $4,700 new. Though, if you weren't ground stacking subs, you would have to fly a pretty potent sub to keep up with the hi mid boxes in a full space loading condition.

Also, there are some used L Acoustics boxes on the market that compare with the specs of the EAW KF's- L Acoustics 112XT box with controller and amp built in one.. I've seen the speakers used for around $2,200($3,400 new), and amp/controller unit for around $4,500. So, after shipping, that equates to around $4,500 a side.

In my experience, I believe people can tell the difference between consumer and pro grade equipment. There is much more to it, but, yeah.

I'm a few years late, but I had to post- partly because everyone's responses aggravated the heck out of me. With a little critical thinking, I understood that you were asking about the box, not the state of acoustics in the room I'm sure these guys are smart, but sheesh.

With respect, you aren't really answering his question either - which was, in effect, "In my room, will the KF394NT be worth the money?"  You've offered an opinion that the KF394NT is a great box.  Several of us said the same thing early in the thread, too.  You haven't answered the question of "Will this be worth it to a specific congregation in a specific room hung in a specific manner?"  This question is so broad and subjective that it's impossible to really do justice to over the internet, as no one knows the whole story.  The OP went to the trouble of hiring a [presumably qualified] designer, and then wanted to second guess that person by asking "the internet". 

Additional details are requested in the hope that maybe some more information (that the OP never really provided) might reveal any red flags.  What came back was an abusive post by a "church guy", which is pretty uncouth way to represent Christ.

Like anything, you get out what you put in.  The OP didn't put much in, and didn't get much out.  Hopefully his church is happy with whatever decision they made.

[Eric Totherow]

With respect, you aren't really answering his question either - which was, in effect, "In my room, will the KF394NT be worth the money?"  You've offered an opinion that the KF394NT is a great box.  Several of us said the same thing early in the thread, too.  You haven't answered the question of "Will this be worth it to a specific congregation in a specific room hung in a specific manner?"  This question is so broad and subjective that it's impossible to really do justice to over the internet, as no one knows the whole story.  The OP went to the trouble of hiring a [presumably qualified] designer, and then wanted to second guess that person by asking "the internet". 

Additional details are requested in the hope that maybe some more information (that the OP never really provided) might reveal any red flags.  What came back was an abusive post by a "church guy", which is pretty uncouth way to represent Christ.

Like anything, you get out what you put in.  The OP didn't put much in, and didn't get much out.  Hopefully his church is happy with whatever decision they made.

Well, I see what you are saying, but- he stated that a professional had come in and measured out the room and suggested EAW KF's. He was asking if the KF's were a good choice for almost 5 thousand a box and if anyone had any experience with them. So I answered. Assuming the contractor had the numbers figured out; yes, the KF394's are very hard to beat, and I'm a loyal Meyer fan; I have to hand it to EAW for this little guy, though.

Look, you guys are brilliant with this stuff, but I just reassured him- of all the variables you could plug into the little spaces where the KF's would go, it would be hard to find a more stable box with that kind of performance. Not impossible, but a very nice box, indeed. So, yeah. I guess others answered that as well. Meh. Plus, he wasn't asking for a qualitative assessment of his church, just some real world accounts of the actual performance of the speaker. I know one could argue, 'the performance of the speaker depends on the acoustics of the room'.. And my answer to that is... Yeah. But, there was no denying that these things were very transparent and just a pleasure to listen to. They were stable with 10 people in the room for soundcheck for a Tim Reynolds show, and 400 during the show. That's all I was saying- and I'm posting with all due respect. You guys know your stuff and err on the side of safety. It is only my opinion, but I believe this question got lost in a little bit of red tape, so to speak. Maybe not entirely, but a little bit- and that is hard to deny.

[Brad Weber]

I think some people are latching on to this topic as it involves an issue that some routinely face.

Look, you guys are brilliant with this stuff, but I just reassured him- of all the variables you could plug into the little spaces where the KF's would go, it would be hard to find a more stable box with that kind of performance.

The aspect that some seem to not grasp is what "that kind of performance" represents within the context of a specific application.  Is it pattern?  Size and weight?  Form factor?  Output?  Some subjective sound quality?  Cost?  Product availability and support?  Something else or some combination of these?

Or is the performance that matters actually the results at the listeners such as coverage, intelligibility, level, system response and so on?  Now you're getting into results defined not just by the speaker products but also by other components of the system, the environment, the use and the system design.

Knowing that a box sounds good or bad absent any context is useful information but it is not actually addressing the performance in a specific use.  And just because a speaker works well in one application does not mean it will work as well or even acceptably in every application, if that were the case there would be one 'best' speaker model for each price point that everyone would use.

Plus, he wasn't asking for a qualitative assessment of his church, just some real world accounts of the actual performance of the speaker.

I am new here and trying to get some advice for main speakers.

Is there a significant drop-off in sound quality if the church goes with a setup that is less expensive? Does anyone recommend going another direction that would be economical, yet still produce good sound?

We believe we received a fair and accurate bid, but we are trying to get clarification on whether or not EAW KF394NT speakers are worth the loot.

Would anyone in the audience besides experienced sound technicians be able to tell the difference between a $5,000 speaker and, say, a $2,500 speaker?

Sounds a lot like Daniel was trying to get a feel for the comparative resulting sound quality with any less expensive options.  And how do you make such a comparison without knowing enough about the situation and their goals to have a good basis for a comparison?

A simple example of how this can matter, I have designed and been involved with numerous systems where the speakers were selected for other characteristics with the result that they are capable of much greater potential output than actually required.  If you compared other speaker product options to those speakers based on the products rather than the relevant performance requirements that difference would not be apparent.

We believe we received a fair and accurate bid, but we are trying to get clarification on whether or not EAW KF394NT speakers are worth the loot. Let's assume that the person who did the estimate chose proper speakers for the room and has a good plan for placing them for equal coverage.

I am not worried about EAW KF394NT speakers being a good fit for the room. I am confident in the person who did the estimate. I am more curious about if there are other speakers similar to EAW KF394NT that are high quality with a lower price tag.

Does anyone have experience with EAW KF394NT speakers?
Does anyone recommend other speakers that they believe have similar sound properties to EAW KF394NT speakers that are cheaper that they swear by?

This is really the crux of the issue.  Someone selected a particular speaker because they are apparently a good fit for the application and you trust their opinion.  Without knowing the physical space, the desired results or what specific factors were relevant to selecting that particular speaker model it is impossible to know what "similar sound properties" may be relevant or not in any potential alternative speaker.  And beyond that is also not knowing any of the relevant design considerations, for example would any alternate speaker have to be in the same locations or are there options for the speaker locations that might allow for a different pattern?

[Eric Totherow]

I think some people are latching on to this topic as it involves an issue that some routinely face.
The aspect that some seem to not grasp is what "that kind of performance" represents within the context of a specific application.  Is it pattern?  Size and weight?  Form factor?  Output?  Some subjective sound quality?  Cost?  Product availability and support?  Something else or some combination of these?

I see what you are saying. I was just assuming that the numbers were already accounted for in regards to the limitations of the speakers. He was just asking about real world experience with the KF's. I just didn't want to sell the guy a 'room addition', when he only wants to weather treat his deck.

We already know: cost, size and weight is acceptable according to contractor, EAW support is excellent..

I supplied one account of a subjective opinion at best of the sound quality. It was a simple round about question that i understood didn't need surgical precision; though, I do respect the pursuit of perfection in wanting to quantify the mass transfer of the polymeric based adhesive that holds the wallpaper on the walls, I didn't see a question regarding analysis of the room. That is where I was coming from. I was erring on the side of extreme simplicity and leaving the real meat and potatoes to you guys. Hope all is well with everyone!

[Don Sullivan]

While these speakers will probably sound great, given the manufacturers reputation, and may sound fine in your room, given proper installation. I'm not a big fan of hanging active speakers in a permanent installation. All electronics are mortal, and seldom last as long as passive speakers. I prefer to hang passive cabinets. Just a practical consideration.

[ProSoundWeb Community]