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Author Topic: Matching subs to tops...number of cabinets and power...  (Read 2123 times)

Scott Stillwell

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Matching subs to tops...number of cabinets and power...
« on: July 21, 2011, 09:30:26 am »

Just pulled out some old top boxes that don't get much love and decided that they still have some miles left on them.

Tops:  2 x EV T-251+, running passive rather than biamp.

Subs:  2 x Danley TH-Mini

Power: 

Tops: QSC PLX1804 (could use PLX3602 if warranted)
Subs: QSC PLX3602

Processing:  Sabine Navigator 360.  Crossover @ 100Hz, 24dB/oct L-R.  Tops delayed 6.146mS.

Here's the meat of the question:  Do I need 2 TH-Mini to 1 T-251+ for your average rock-n-roll gig?  I've SMAARTed the system outdoors to within +/- 2 dB or so from 40-18k (coherence is pegged at 100% so I'm fairly certain of my measurements...), and the phase trace looks nice and smooth, and it sounds natural with music reproduction...but I haven't fired any shots in anger with it and would rather have my ducks in a row BEFORE I have to use this at a show.

I mostly use this in relatively small rooms (< 300, and usually < 200 occ.), and usually at fairly robust volumes.

Secondary question:  Am I using the right amp(s) for the job?  Anything that's better/cheaper/lighter that I'm missing?  The PLX2 stuff has been good to me so far...

Thanks,

Scott Stillwell
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Ron Kimball

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Re: Matching subs to tops...number of cabinets and power...
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2011, 08:22:07 am »

The tops are powered pretty good but you need more power for the TH-Mini's if you want them to keep up with those tops. About 1200 watts each would do it - something like a bridged PLX2502. If you set the limiter in that SN360 properly the PLX3602 bridged would be OK too. Covering more than 250 people with that would be a stretch. I have a pair of the Th-Mini's and they are about equal to an SRX718S in output (above 50Hz) for reference.
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Matching subs to tops...number of cabinets and power...
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2011, 08:44:24 am »

Is this a:
 "The room can hold 300 people, but 20 people will show up and sit way in the back so they can talk gig",

a

"The room can hold 300 people and 300 people will be seated at tables throughout the room, and all 300 people will want consistent good rock volume?,

 or a

"The room can hold 300 people, and 300 people will be standing right in front of the speakers so coverage is only required for 20'"?

What do you man by rock and roll?  I haven't heard the TH Minis, but if Ron is correct in that two of them equal an SRX718 but don't go as low, I would say you have enough gear for my scenario 1, but not for the other two.

There's nothing wrong with PLX amps.
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Ron Kimball

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Re: Matching subs to tops...number of cabinets and power...
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2011, 09:07:40 am »

IME scenario #2 (people seated at tables) would not generally want "concert level" and in #3 there are usually 1/2 of the people wanting to be at the back at below concert level anyways. Those tops are only 60 degree coverage and best suited for focusing on the dance floor and not a sitdown concert - you'd need at least two pairs for that just for the coverage and a couple more subs. I personally hate single pairs of 60 degree traps for a small system (90x45's rule there) but it can be made to work fine in a "focus on the dancefloor" situation and the bartenders do appreciate it if you can steer the sound away from them a bit :) .
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Scott Stillwell

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Re: Matching subs to tops...number of cabinets and power...
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2011, 07:28:41 pm »

IME scenario #2 (people seated at tables) would not generally want "concert level" and in #3 there are usually 1/2 of the people wanting to be at the back at below concert level anyways. Those tops are only 60 degree coverage and best suited for focusing on the dance floor and not a sitdown concert - you'd need at least two pairs for that just for the coverage and a couple more subs. I personally hate single pairs of 60 degree traps for a small system (90x45's rule there) but it can be made to work fine in a "focus on the dancefloor" situation and the bartenders do appreciate it if you can steer the sound away from them a bit :) .

Let's see if I can get all the counter-questions answered in one shot...

Probably more like "most of the rooms are 85-200 occupancy, 300 is very occasional...but want to provide for the capability".  The crowd is usually "1/3 to 1/2 up front and engaged with what's going on and/or dancing, 1/2 to 2/3 hanging back, enjoying the music, but trying to talk anyway".

Except in clubs where stupid volumes are expected, I don't usually EVER go past 110 dBA on the dance floor, which is stupid loud anyway in my book for a bar...calculate volume in the room from there.  95-100 dBA on the dance floor is more typical.

"Rock and Roll" in this case means cover bands...everything from recent pop-song-of-the-moment to alternative to classic rock.  Usually not metal.

I can run the subs with a pair paralleled across a PLX3602 bridged...and have done that in the past.  That puts somewhere in the vicinity of 1800W/box available.  I'd rather have them feel the kick and snare on the floor than shred their faces with the top boxes.  I have a spare 3602 sitting idle if it's not required on the tops...if I need more subs, I've got the power.  I also still have some Crown K1 & K2 sitting idle...they're heavier than the PLX2 stuff, but still bearable.

I ALWAYS try to keep the staff happy...customers come and go, the staff is always there.  :)  If they can't hear to fill orders, they don't make money, and then WE don't make money.

Did I cover everything?  Let me know...

Scott
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Matching subs to tops...number of cabinets and power...
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2011, 07:28:41 pm »


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