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Author Topic: Yamaha M7, compression and effects questions.  (Read 4075 times)

Kevin Maxwell

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Yamaha M7, compression and effects questions.
« on: July 18, 2011, 01:41:48 pm »

M7, compression and effects questions.

I am about to use an M7 for a musical (Jesus Christ Superstar). Rehearsal with sound and band starts next week 7/25 with the only performances at the end of the week.  I have taken the Yamaha training for the M7 (along with all of the other Yamaha training) but it has been a few years. I just the other day watched all of the online M7 training sessions to refresh my memory. I have also played with the off-line software quite a bit and I have configured the show in that software. We will be installing the sound system this Thursday and Friday but I wonít get the M7 in place until the morning of the first day of rehearsals. And they always expect me to hit all of the cues properly on the first rehearsal with sound. I only recall fader movements and enter all of them relatively quickly from a spreadsheet that they do for me. This allows me to trim each input during a routine we run thru on stage before each rehearsal and performance. And this method has worked very well for me for a while now, as long as their spreadsheet is accurate and the actors give me performance levels in the sound check.

I am thinking of using both dynamic processors on the input channels for compression. I was thinking of setting the first one for a mild soft knee (2.5 Ė 1) and then use the second compressor with a more drastic ratio but with a slower attack time to try and catch the screams. Am I looking at the proper way to do this? I am used to using DBX160 compressors set on the Auto mode with over easy engaged. And I like the sound of the DBX160 and am trying to get as close to that as possible.

I was also wondering if anyone had a vocal reverb effect and settings that they prefer in the M7 for the kind of show I am doing. I was thinking of setting up one for solos and a different one for the chorus. I am thinking of using a repeating delay for some of the weird crowd/chorus effects. And I was thinking of using a reverb to fatten up the small (3- piece) horn section a little bit. This will use up my effects.

Any suggestions or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.       
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Brian Harden

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Re: Yamaha M7, compression and effects questions.
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2011, 05:25:36 pm »

Kevin,

I have done that very show with an M7, but it was a long time ago and before I started saving my shows on a data stick.  Unfortunately, I don't have that on file.  I probably do have all the sound effects on file for Sound cue systems playback though.

I generally use a very "soft knee" compressor for musicals, but it's really there as a limiter.  I find that in any venue less than say 800 seats, vocalist usually carry well above dialogue levels.  I set my compressors to start kicking in as they start singing, but not during dialogue.  Again, I don't bring up gain on the compressor and just use it to bring loud levels down. 

JCS in general is an extremely dynamic show, so you may need to use the compressors/limiters a little heavier to even it all out.  Either that or ride the faders like I do.

Also, I can tell you that mic'ing Jesus (that sounds funny to me) is kinda tricky.  His character basically ranges from a very soft whisper to absolute shouting in the same song (Gesthaneme)... lots of fader riding on that one!  I had a horrible experience trying to use the countryman mics for that because Jesus was so loud.  I had to go get a lav and place it strategically to get it away from his mouth, but still get good pickup.

All in all, it's one of the easier shows because everything is sung.  I have grown to appreciate Andrew Lloyd Weber for that.  After shows like All Shook Up or Grease with the sing-talk-sing-talk 50 characters coming on and off stage all the time... I love Evita or JCS!!! 


Cheers!

Brian



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Dave Barnett

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Re: Yamaha M7, compression and effects questions.
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2011, 07:36:58 pm »



I was also wondering if anyone had a vocal reverb effect and settings that they prefer in the M7 for the kind of show I am doing. I was thinking of setting up one for solos and a different one for the chorus. I am thinking of using a repeating delay for some of the weird crowd/chorus effects. And I was thinking of using a reverb to fatten up the small (3- piece) horn section a little bit. This will use up my effects.

       

For vocal reverbs on the M7, I limit myself to the RevX 'verbs, particularly the RevX Hall.  You'll want to play with the "crossover" and the relative LF and HF levels in the EQ settings.  Also I EQ the reverb return channels, with both LP and HP filters as well as a pretty broad cut somewhere around 500Hz or so, and a cut in the sibilance range if you don't like that stuff hanging around.
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Yamaha M7, compression and effects questions.
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2011, 12:13:17 am »

Kevin,

I have done that very show with an M7, but it was a long time ago and before I started saving my shows on a data stick.  Unfortunately, I don't have that on file.  I probably do have all the sound effects on file for Sound cue systems playback though.

I generally use a very "soft knee" compressor for musicals, but it's really there as a limiter.  I find that in any venue less than say 800 seats, vocalist usually carry well above dialogue levels.  I set my compressors to start kicking in as they start singing, but not during dialogue.  Again, I don't bring up gain on the compressor and just use it to bring loud levels down. 

JCS in general is an extremely dynamic show, so you may need to use the compressors/limiters a little heavier to even it all out.  Either that or ride the faders like I do.

Also, I can tell you that mic'ing Jesus (that sounds funny to me) is kinda tricky.  His character basically ranges from a very soft whisper to absolute shouting in the same song (Gesthaneme)... lots of fader riding on that one!  I had a horrible experience trying to use the countryman mics for that because Jesus was so loud.  I had to go get a lav and place it strategically to get it away from his mouth, but still get good pickup.

All in all, it's one of the easier shows because everything is sung.  I have grown to appreciate Andrew Lloyd Weber for that.  After shows like All Shook Up or Grease with the sing-talk-sing-talk 50 characters coming on and off stage all the time... I love Evita or JCS!!! 


Cheers!

Brian
The actor that is playing Jesus played Angel in rent last summer. So he went from an Angel to Jesus. So I am a little bit familiar with his voice and I think we will be ok but I will definitely watch out for the dynamic range that can be in that part and a few others. Did you have the reduced sensitivity Countryman mics? The only problems (since using the reduced sensitivity version) I have ever had has been when I do the initial sound check and the actor isnít giving it their all. And I end up with the trim set too high to start with. Digital consoles donít like to be run too hot, as you know.

I havenít been able to find the sound effects for this show. I was under the impression that the only sound effects are the whip for the 39 lashes and that kind of sounds like a slap stick to me, a thunder clap (where that comes I donít know) but I have a few good ones of those, and the nails being driven (I thought I had one but I canít find it. Are there others I am not aware of?  If I PM you with an email address do you think you can send them to me? Or do you have somewhere that can host them that I can download them from. I donít know how big the files would be. I am not familiar with ďsound cue systemsĒ so I donít know what kind of file format it uses. I use a sampler for playback that uses wav files.

When I am dealing with shows with dialog I use automixers on post fader direct outs, just for the dialog parts. I was one of the automixing for live sound panelist at the 2009 AES in NYC. And I learned how to finesse the usage of them with a lot of help over the years on here from Mac and Bink. Bink was the panel moderator. 
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Re: Yamaha M7, compression and effects questions.
¬ę Reply #3 on: July 20, 2011, 12:13:17 am ¬Ľ


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