Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Tim McCulloch]

...came across Rock Hard's ebay auction for the SC48 case and it seems pretty cool, although a bit expensive.

$2350 for this case would be a breeze, Although you could have a regular roadcase for $1200, $550 for a Rack to hold the Keyboard, screen, PD, etc... and $650 for an Ez-Tilt so you don't have to huff the gear around.

I am seriously thinking about starting a sound company within the next year and don't look forward to lifting heavy objects.

I can't ever remember seriously considering starting a sound company, it just naturally progressed from playing in a band to, hey you guys own a pa!?, can you run sound for me?

The heavy objects, you can't really have your cake and eat it too.... Although I will say that if you decide to go for a small system you can fit in the back of a 12-16 ft trailer and say I'll never own anything that can't fit in here, and think smart about the size of your cabs/subs/mons etc... then you can have a small, yet effective rig.


Will you need an SC48 as your console... maybe? It's an awesome console but judging by you balking at the price of a roadcase (that is easily only fraction of the price of the board), I'm thinking you haven't really looked at what everything else costs as well...

The ticket cost for a cheap seat at the Regional Sound Company show is $350,000.  When you add in trucks or some additional capacity it's very easy to hit $500k with a "sky's the limit" top end.

Everything in production has 3 qualities: price, size & weight.  There are enough different products out there that a purchaser can usually balance those qualities along with the performance specifications to arrive at purchase decisions that make sense for that company, in that market, at that time.

The OP would do well to hire on with a regional company near him for the rest of this summer, pull some feeder, run caddies through rodeo mud, help lift some H3000 or PM4K, move some racks of Macrotech 5002.  He will gain a new perspective on size and weight.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

[Evan Roussos]

The SC48 is heavy?  Seriously?

Yes, I would say seriously. If you're lucky enough to be a sound company owner that is stronger than Arnold Schwartzinoogin and can easily pick up a SC48 by yourself off the floor and put it on a table, then my hat is off to you. If you're lucky enough to be a sound company owner that can order your minions around to move your consoles then cool, you won't need a special case. If you're lucky enough to work in a market that revolves around union gigs and have union grunts picking up your stuff and huffing it wherever, then cool. However, not all markets and sound companies have that luxury. There are many sound companies that are owner operated and need all the help they can get. And there are church markets too that don't mind spending money on cool new stuff.

I consider myself fairly strong. I can pickup a Sc48 and put it on a table but it just kills me. It feels like it weighs more than it really does to me. IN comparison to a PM1d, well of course it's lightweight as compared to that. But as one guy, I'm looking at console that can do lots of stuff and not weigh a million pounds. As I said in a previous post, I don't mind lifting heavy objects just not AWKWARD objects and mixers to me have always been awkward when they get over 80lbs.

So that being said I will have to apologize for my initial post saying that I'm looking to start a new sound company and don't look forward to lifting heavy things (ha ha jokes on me). I was writing  to make a short post and wasn't looking to expound on my sound issues, just wanting to know if anyone knew of any other cases companies that built a case like this for comparison purposes. Okay now THAT being said, I've worked in the production and sound industry for 30 years now and I can guarantee you that I've probably moved and lifted more gear than 99% of the members of this community and have personally broken 5 handtrucks from heavy use - yes, a lot of gear. I just like moving lighter things if possible, if the means exist.

So, I must admit that while I know prices pretty well on sound gear, I'm not real up on the case market. After some research over the last 48 hours, it seems like Sc48 cases are not cheap. Sweetwater advertises it's L&M case for $2500 and that's just a stock case. And somewhere I think I saw a R&R case over $2000 too, so I guess they're not cheap.

I've waited a long time to see the market get where it is, and that's to the point where digital consoles are coming down in price to affordable levels for smaller companies. I'd say that the range of rider ACCEPTABLE consoles are below $20k now and that's a lot more affordable than $50k to $70k. And this where the divide is going from what I have seen. There's large sound companies that can afford to buy the expensive digital desks, and there's a million small sound companies that can operate on a slew of Allen and Heath old analog desks. But it seems that there is hardly anyone out there who is in the middle - one that will put out the money for the Sc48s, M7's, iLIve's, and still be able to do local shows with smaller touring acts. And obviously this is where the market will be for a special case because if that person can afford the rider ACCEPTABLE digital consoles, then that person can afford the case too most likely and any extra help would be appreciated.

I know one thing, and that's the fact that almost every act that's on their regional or national poverty tour (you're still playing small venues) really expect a digital console to be there or they sure want one (especially the country guys in my experience). Although I personally rather mix on an iLive, I see guys wanting the Sc48 more and hardly anyone mentioning the M7 (weird) so that's why I'm leaning on a Sc48. When I say starting a sound company, I really mean zero'ing in on items that smaller sound companies will want to rent because because they don't want to put out the investment. Return on investment? Why do some people put the money out for Lab Gruppens when you can buy amps that cost 1/3 as much? Because at some point when that person hears that Lab Gruppens sound better, then it's worth it. In my neck of the woods I see this type of environment, small venues that can't afford the big sound companies, but really need some quality gear.

Lastly, mentioning that a case that weighs 250lbs or more would definitely be counterproductive and I wholeheartedly agree with that if you ever have to push it up a ramp. So I called Rock Hard again (I'm getting to be a pest) and they said that the rotating M7 case with rack and drawer option by itself is about 190lbs and probably a bit less for the Sc48 case. I know I could push that combo up a ramp, but don't know about weaker guys or light queens.

[Mike Caldwell]

While that flip out/fold case is a tricky design it looks like it could be unstable on all but nice flat hard surfaces.

[Evan Roussos]

While that flip out/fold case is a tricky design it looks like it could be unstable on all but nice flat hard surfaces.

I could call them AGAIN, and ask if they have a 4x4 version  . Honestly, I don't know who would set up on a non flat surface, especially if you had a conventional tall rack worth of stuff sitting by your mixer. I see wheel locks in the pictures so that should help, and I've seen 4 different types of pictures of these cases with the 4 different mixers in them so I would think that if it was unstable, the guy who owned it would say something and the problem would get fixed. but who knows? I know one thing, I wouldn't think that leaning on the front of it with all your weight would be a good idea, just like standing on the edge of table isn't a good idea either. Some things are just common sense. Cheers

[kristianjohnsen]

The SC48 is heavy?  Seriously?

Yes, I would say seriously. If you're lucky enough to be a sound company owner that is stronger than Arnold Schwartzinoogin and can easily pick up a SC48 by yourself off the floor and put it on a table, then my hat is off to you. If you're lucky enough to be a sound company owner that can order your minions around to move your consoles then cool, you won't need a special case. If you're lucky enough to work in a market that revolves around union gigs and have union grunts picking up your stuff and huffing it wherever, then cool. However, not all markets and sound companies have that luxury. There are many sound companies that are owner operated and need all the help they can get. And there are church markets too that don't mind spending money on cool new stuff.

I consider myself fairly strong. I can pickup a Sc48 and put it on a table but it just kills me. It feels like it weighs more than it really does to me. IN comparison to a PM1d, well of course it's lightweight as compared to that. But as one guy, I'm looking at console that can do lots of stuff and not weigh a million pounds. As I said in a previous post, I don't mind lifting heavy objects just not AWKWARD objects and mixers to me have always been awkward when they get over 80lbs.

So that being said I will have to apologize for my initial post saying that I'm looking to start a new sound company and don't look forward to lifting heavy things (ha ha jokes on me). I was writing  to make a short post and wasn't looking to expound on my sound issues, just wanting to know if anyone knew of any other cases companies that built a case like this for comparison purposes. Okay now THAT being said, I've worked in the production and sound industry for 30 years now and I can guarantee you that I've probably moved and lifted more gear than 99% of the members of this community and have personally broken 5 handtrucks from heavy use - yes, a lot of gear. I just like moving lighter things if possible, if the means exist.

So, I must admit that while I know prices pretty well on sound gear, I'm not real up on the case market. After some research over the last 48 hours, it seems like Sc48 cases are not cheap. Sweetwater advertises it's L&M case for $2500 and that's just a stock case. And somewhere I think I saw a R&R case over $2000 too, so I guess they're not cheap.

I've waited a long time to see the market get where it is, and that's to the point where digital consoles are coming down in price to affordable levels for smaller companies. I'd say that the range of rider ACCEPTABLE consoles are below $20k now and that's a lot more affordable than $50k to $70k. And this where the divide is going from what I have seen. There's large sound companies that can afford to buy the expensive digital desks, and there's a million small sound companies that can operate on a slew of Allen and Heath old analog desks. But it seems that there is hardly anyone out there who is in the middle - one that will put out the money for the Sc48s, M7's, iLIve's, and still be able to do local shows with smaller touring acts. And obviously this is where the market will be for a special case because if that person can afford the rider ACCEPTABLE digital consoles, then that person can afford the case too most likely and any extra help would be appreciated.

I know one thing, and that's the fact that almost every act that's on their regional or national poverty tour (you're still playing small venues) really expect a digital console to be there or they sure want one (especially the country guys in my experience). Although I personally rather mix on an iLive, I see guys wanting the Sc48 more and hardly anyone mentioning the M7 (weird) so that's why I'm leaning on a Sc48. When I say starting a sound company, I really mean zero'ing in on items that smaller sound companies will want to rent because because they don't want to put out the investment. Return on investment? Why do some people put the money out for Lab Gruppens when you can buy amps that cost 1/3 as much? Because at some point when that person hears that Lab Gruppens sound better, then it's worth it. In my neck of the woods I see this type of environment, small venues that can't afford the big sound companies, but really need some quality gear.

Lastly, mentioning that a case that weighs 250lbs or more would definitely be counterproductive and I wholeheartedly agree with that if you ever have to push it up a ramp. So I called Rock Hard again (I'm getting to be a pest) and they said that the rotating M7 case with rack and drawer option by itself is about 190lbs and probably a bit less for the Sc48 case. I know I could push that combo up a ramp, but don't know about weaker guys or light queens.

Evan.

I agree that digital mixers have reached a price point where smaller companies can now justify to own them - and enjoy the benefits, although it's an illusion that one will be able to step right into the shoes of the companies that owned that type of gear like 4-5 years ago - the artists they serve have now started demanding whatever is cool and new NOW.  And on and on it goes...
Only a few years ago a PM1D would have been way out of my reach - same with the DM 2000.  Of course it's a chicken-and-egg situation:  Have I grown because of the gear, or have I gotten the gear because I've grown?  I suspect a little bit of both.  At any rate I can't say I think many operations of the same size had those mixers 4-5 years ago, so my conclusion is that accessibility has increased.   For my little operation I believe that these two mixers will serve myself and the freelancers I use really well as "main mixers" for a fair bit of time onwards; they're good products even if a little aged.  If the occational BE refuses to use them I still have my older analog "A"-package in top condition.  And if that isn't good enough I might just accept that there's a chance that gig belongs with someone further up the food chain.

But I digress, here's my point:  My general feel is that if the gig warrants the use of my DM 2000 or my PM1D, then the gig is big enough to warrant, if not a second tech, than at least a helper - or a loader-type-person provided by the promoter.  With analog this was a little trickier as I would often drag along my Soundcraft Series TWO with three big outboard racks to gigs that left me looking for some extra hands come lifting time.  Now, if I do an "lift-everything-by-myself"-gig I try to get by with using my 01v96 with external preamps.  Compared to the Series TWO package, that's one powerful contender - and oh so easy to set up and tear down   Digital has many benefits.

By the way, I'm pretty sure that if you were to get an M7CL or an SC48 and one of those fancy "tilters" like the EZ Tilt or similar, you could rock those up into the upright position real easily by yourself, possibly installing two extra handles on the roadcase to grab the center top lid.

Again, the tilting case looks neat, but it also looks impractical and unstable to me.  I'm sorry if that offends you.  If you do get one I'd seriously love to hear about how it works in real life - it's an interesting concept.

Best regards,

Kristian

PS:  I'm in the same boat with whoever said they never planned to start a sound company - it "just happened that way".  I think the conclusion for me is that first you need a customer base, than you need to start an operation to cover their needs - the other way around is probably a lot harder!

[Steve Payne]

I am seriously thinking about starting a sound company within the next year and don't look forward to lifting heavy objects.

I wrote a really snide, smart ass reply to your post and then thought better and erased it.
Short story is, my spread sheet says that a small/mid sized rig that would be typical of an SC48 package is going to boost my trucks GW by about 7000 lbs.  Figuring out how to flip your console up isn't going to solve your dislike for lifting heavy objects.  If you want to go into the sound business, you better develop a healthy love for schlepping heavy shit.
Good luck.

[Scott Allen]

PS:  I'm in the same boat with whoever said they never planned to start a sound company - it "just happened that way".  I think the conclusion for me is that first you need a customer base, than you need to start an operation to cover their needs - the other way around is probably a lot harder!

Yeah that was me,

There is NO WAY I would just up and start a sound company, not unless I was already renting the equipment I was preparing to buy. The funny thing was we were building a larger PA so we wouldn't blow drivers at gigs (as often). Gotta start somewhere I guess!

I like the idea of stepping up and investing in a console that can generate revenue for you on a regular basis, and buying a great case for it would be a must! But I have found I would have little or no demand for it. And the renters I would have, well let's say it just doesn't excite me too much...

The acts I need consoles for either

A) It's important enough for them to carry their own
B) would work on whatever you got with 32 channels

I found my niche with 32 channels, and on larger shows we are 90 miles from 3 metro areas that I can pull consoles from, spend a few dollars to rent and return them, all for less than total cost of ownership every year, it puts a dent in my PM but I factor stuff like that as I would backline. "You want mixer XYZ? Ok, here's what that's going to run you."

[Evan Roussos]

I am seriously thinking about starting a sound company within the next year and don't look forward to lifting heavy objects.

I wrote a really snide, smart ass reply to your post and then thought better and erased it.

Well that's good you did, because it's obvious you nor some other posters actually read all the posts, because if you did, then you would understand that most likely I have moved a lot more gear than you have after 30 years of the production and sound business. Can you guys get over this? Please read the ORIGINAL question and stick to it? The ONLY question was if someone else offered a case like the one RockHard is offering. I appreciate all the mother hens herding the newbie off the path of buying sound gear but after 30 years of doing ALL ASPECTS OF PRODUCTION AND SOUND and working with a lot of top names in the industry and working with a lot of other sound companies (read as contacts folks), if I fail then it's my business and my business alone. Wow what a can of worms. The thread is about cases! Not starting sound companies! Forget I even made that comment because it's inaccurate! For cryin out loud....

[Chris Carpenter]

For cryin out loud....

Welcome to PSW. It's fun here 

[kristianjohnsen]

I am seriously thinking about starting a sound company within the next year and don't look forward to lifting heavy objects.

I wrote a really snide, smart ass reply to your post and then thought better and erased it.

Well that's good you did, because it's obvious you nor some other posters actually read all the posts, because if you did, then you would understand that most likely I have moved a lot more gear than you have after 30 years of the production and sound business. Can you guys get over this? Please read the ORIGINAL question and stick to it? The ONLY question was if someone else offered a case like the one RockHard is offering. I appreciate all the mother hens herding the newbie off the path of buying sound gear but after 30 years of doing ALL ASPECTS OF PRODUCTION AND SOUND and working with a lot of top names in the industry and working with a lot of other sound companies (read as contacts folks), if I fail then it's my business and my business alone. Wow what a can of worms. The thread is about cases! Not starting sound companies! Forget I even made that comment because it's inaccurate! For cryin out loud....

Evan.

Here's the thing about internet forum posting:  It's a group conversation and sometimes things tend to branch out into different topics than the exact one that was started.  For instance, Scott and I just got to have a nice, bonding share-and-compare about running a small local sound company.  Thank you for getting us started on that!   If that part of the conversation doesn't interest you (it kinda should if you're seriously thinking about starting one yourself) then just ignore it and rest assured that it's keeping your thread on top so more people see it, and possibly, people will join in to give advice on tilter cases.  Be a team player and all that, you know!

Best regards,

Kristian

[ProSoundWeb Community]