ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: introduction & sub question  (Read 16617 times)

Josh Duke

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
  • Boston, MA
Re: introduction & sub question
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2011, 07:59:07 am »

I'm sure you know that this solution is...unconventional...

Most horizontal arrays of this size (and most of the "linearrays") hung in smaller installs have nothing to do with the original purpose of a linearray: to create a linesource that emits cylindrical waves.

Let me know if someone actually creates a system that emits cylindrical waves.   :o
Logged

biton walstra

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: introduction & sub question
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2011, 09:01:15 am »

thanks all for the warm welcome and usefull advise!
Logged

Matthias Heitzer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
Re: introduction & sub question
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2011, 10:46:07 am »

@  Jonathan, since english is a foreign language for me, i most propably wasn't able to express what i thought:
Think of it this way: the 1C had at least mounting points that can sustain the weight of the Speaker, the HKs have nothing like that, and a DIY sub with DIY flying hardware means double danger.
To me it looks like the weight is carried by the top bracket, each pair of mountingpoints has to carry only their own speaker. Potentially weakest Links are the top bracket and the top screws which connect the mounting bracket with the first speaker and the aluminum bars. But thats only a guess based on some pictures...



@ Josh: perhaps I just mistranslated the word "Zylinderwelle"
 A good example of a classical line array is the TM-array. A simple yet effective design by Thomas Mundorf.
Just a big column of subs hung over the stage center, a good solution to bring even bass coverage into arenas.
And guess what, the area under the hang is relatively quiet.

Only if you've got a real line source (required lenght is dependent on the lowest frequency and the desired reach) you can take advantage of the -3db less spl at double distance (vs -6db for spherical waves/pointsource).

Just think of the electrostatic field of a point or a line or a plate with evenly distributet charge.
Solve a few integrals and you know how the strenght of the field changes with the distance



@ all:
when paradigms clash.....
Looks like we've lost our new member, didn' thought that the intercontinental gap is so vast.
I've seen things in the UK that were much worse than this DIY flying solution.
And guess what: they're still living! Don't get me wrong, i don't want to encourage anyone to do dangerous things.
But we all got a head on our shoulders and a brain inside, we might as well use it.
an empty head would only be better for nodding.....

Risk assessment is the name of the game, (at least here in germany "Gefährdungsanalyse") Different axioms might lead to diffrent results.
It seems to be more convient to make laws and regulations against everything potentially hazardous, but it is always surprising how creative people are if they want to find a way around.

Einstein(is said to have) said: There are two infinite things, the universe and the stupidity of man. Actually we're not sure about the universe...

There's no way to assure safety with laws, thats why we have to think for ourselfes and this thread had the chance to become a good discussion about basic acoustic principles and technical standards.
Propably leading to sound guidelines for safe installations.
(the liability issue is another topic, better suited for a laws forum)

It is sad that every question is answered by: "go find a consultant" I guess there are too much of them in this forum.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 11:31:48 am by Matthias Heitzer »
Logged

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: introduction & sub question
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2011, 11:13:23 am »

thanks all for the warm welcome and usefull advise!

  You've been given good advice.  You don't like it because you've been told honestly that what you're doing is unsafe and unsound.  Your ego gets bruised so you shoot the messenger.

Ta. 
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Josh Duke

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
  • Boston, MA
Re: introduction & sub question
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2011, 12:31:30 pm »

Quote from: dick rees


  You've been given good advice.  You don't like it because you've been told honestly that what you're doing is unsafe and unsound.  Your ego gets bruised so you shoot the messenger.

Ta.

"Hmmm.  Warm and cuddly, your are not.  But, right you seem to be."

Sorry, just channeling my inner Yoda....  LOL
Logged

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6885
  • Audio Plumber
Re: introduction & sub question
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2011, 01:09:45 pm »

thanks all for the warm welcome and usefull advise!

Sorry you got treated like an adult instead of a kid who needed encouragement.

You have earned yourself a 2 week suspension for the silly name game.

Mac
Logged

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: introduction & sub question
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2011, 01:53:33 pm »

thanks all for the warm welcome and usefull advise!

Biton....

I'm sure you're not a bad person.  I'm betting you're a fine, well-meaning human being......with a really bad idea about sound.  It's fine to take pride in what you've been able to come up with so far, but please realize that (even thought it's in a "side forum") you're asking your question in a professional audio forum whose members have lifetimes of experience, many of us starting out just as you are by combining stuff and trying to make it work.  We've been there, done that, and are simply pointing out the weaknesses in your approach and setup.

Stick around and ask your questions.  As to money invested, you'll spend far more trying to cobble together cheap components than simply purchasing the proper gear in the first place.  Determining what is the proper gear takes time, but we'll give you the time and the benefit of the collective experience if you stick around.

BTW, my first system was some home-made speakers (old TV speakers), a Heathkit amp and a Radio Shack four channel mixer........but that was LONG ago.

Stick around.
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Jay Barracato

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2025
  • Solomons, MD
Re: introduction & sub question
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2011, 02:13:56 pm »


  As to money invested, you'll spend far more trying to cobble together cheap components than simply purchasing the proper gear in the first place.  Determining what is the proper gear takes time, but we'll give you the time and the benefit of the collective experience if you stick around.

Stick around.

Given the description of the room, and the number of people who are attending, the proper gear may have been as simple as a single k10 in deep mode or with an optional single sub stuck in a corner.
Logged
Jay Barracato

Brad Weber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2209
  • Marietta, GA
Re: introduction & sub question
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2011, 02:23:56 pm »

that bar is a scaffolding pole. they are used by scaffolding companies, very strong (4mm thick). i can easily hang on it. those rods are m10 threads and those clamps are heavy stuff too. the chain i used is rated for 50kg while those 4 1c speakers are only 8kg in total. also those aluminium strips are 2mm thick. so we don't really have any worries about that.
This is a common situation.  On one hand the arrays weigh maybe 20lbs. total per array, on the other hand the way they are mounted appears to directly disagree with what is stated in the related speaker and bracket manuals.  The mounting may never be an issue but if it is then you and the church will most likely be at greater risk.  It seems professional to address that rather than ignoring it.

but we not really need to have big subs as when a band plays we only amplify vocals, guitar & keyboard.
Keyboards can be full range, in fact they might be the drums and bass in some applications.  You probably do not need that much low end due to the limited output of the little Behringer 1Cs, but you probably need the subs to handle all the low end.
 
the new 1c are sounding so much better got many compliments as "he very clear and soft sound" then those hk audio speakers as they were very harsh and thin with voice; a woofer & horn design with cheap filter.
This may also represent a common situation where the results are considered acceptable or even good but perhaps not as good as they could have been.  I routinely encounter churches that have audio systems with which they are pleased or even proud of the results but for which I see how much better they possibly could have been.  In such situations I have learned to keep my mouth shut unless someone asks for my opinion, which your posting here seemed to be doing.  But I think Jay went direct to the issue, what you have may 'work' but it seems like there may have been some simpler alternatives that could offer better results.
 
funny part of this whole thread is all the negative talk about a so called line-array build from some 1c speakers... as i was actually only asking about to fly or not to fly subs... to many parrots who are not really reading / studying a post.
I understand your comment and some of it may be a language or cultural factors but your initial posts, including the pictures posted and those linked, addressed aspects of the system other than the subwoofers so people may have actually read and studied what was posted more than you may have thought.
Logged

Brad Weber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2209
  • Marietta, GA
Re: introduction & sub question
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2011, 02:31:01 pm »

It is sad that every question is answered by: "go find a consultant" I guess there are too much of them in this forum.
I don't see where anyone responded with any such suggestion, much less that "every" question gets that answer.  And anyone providing recommendations is essentially acting as a consultant, so maybe there are too many here.
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: introduction & sub question
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2011, 02:31:01 pm »


Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.06 seconds with 22 queries.