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Author Topic: Bass Maximizers  (Read 14769 times)

Brian Ehlers

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Re: Bass Maximizers
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2011, 05:54:42 pm »

Did it actually give you more bass or the illusion of it?
As I understand it, the entire principle of the Maxxbass unit is to give the illusion of more bass without requiring the speakers to go any louder down low.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.  Pipe organ makers have done this for centuries.  And the manufacturers of small speakers often tune their boxes with a small hump in-band to make it sound like they extend lower than they really do.
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Daniel Lozada

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Re: Bass Maximizers
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2011, 01:35:02 am »

I would like to give one of the MaxxBass units a try on my LS808s...what model should I look into? All DJ work, running 4 LS808s under 4 E15s.
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Brad Weber

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Re: Bass Maximizers
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2011, 08:30:08 am »

As I understand it, the entire principle of the Maxxbass unit is to give the illusion of more bass without requiring the speakers to go any louder down low.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.  Pipe organ makers have done this for centuries.  And the manufacturers of small speakers often tune their boxes with a small hump in-band to make it sound like they extend lower than they really do.
That's what I find so ironic about how many people apply these devices and what they think they are doing.  The way the MaxxBass works is actually to reduce the low frequency signal levels and create and/or increase the higher frequency harmonics that would be associated with that low frequency content.  So you actually get less physical low frequency output while adding to the higher frequency signal content, which may increase the mains signal level and thus require that you reduce the mains level to compensate.

So if you have a system with excess mains headroom and insufficient low frequency capability then it may help give the perception of greater low frequency output, but it is not really providing greater low frequency output, in fact it is normally reducing the low frequency content.
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Iain.Macdonald

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Re: Bass Maximizers
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2011, 09:32:36 am »

That's what I find so ironic about how many people apply these devices and what they think they are doing.  The way the MaxxBass works is actually to reduce the low frequency signal levels and create and/or increase the higher frequency harmonics that would be associated with that low frequency content.  So you actually get less physical low frequency output while adding to the higher frequency signal content, which may increase the mains signal level and thus require that you reduce the mains level to compensate.

So if you have a system with excess mains headroom and insufficient low frequency capability then it may help give the perception of greater low frequency output, but it is not really providing greater low frequency output, in fact it is normally reducing the low frequency content.


Err not quite. Remember energy distribution of fundamentals and harmonics. Below is the PSD of a 50Hz signal, and the "Maxxed" version. Note the level difference. That's why this system is so attractive to consumer equipment manufacturers, who use limited capability drivers.

Iain.
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Mike Christy

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Re: Bass Maximizers
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2011, 09:44:25 am »

Err not quite. Remember energy distribution of fundamentals and harmonics. Below is the PSD of a 50Hz signal, and the "Maxxed" version. Note the level difference. That's why this system is so attractive to consumer equipment manufacturers, who use limited capability drivers.

Iain.

This looks suspiciously like sub harmonic (speaker) distortion and the frequency range of the mud I am always trying to clear up...
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Chris Carpenter

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Re: Bass Maximizers
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2011, 01:24:23 pm »

This looks suspiciously like sub harmonic (speaker) distortion and the frequency range of the mud I am always trying to clear up...
It is actually the opposite of subharmonics; it is harmonics of the fundamental. While the range amplified is in a trouble zone for LF content, I find that, used properly, it doesn't really add mud. Having said that, if you jack up some of the wrong parameters, it will most definitely add mud (sortof makes it sound like a heavily pumping compressor).
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Mike Christy

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Re: Bass Maximizers
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2011, 02:05:11 pm »

It is actually the opposite of subharmonics; it is harmonics of the fundamental. While the range amplified is in a trouble zone for LF content, I find that, used properly, it doesn't really add mud. Having said that, if you jack up some of the wrong parameters, it will most definitely add mud (sortof makes it sound like a heavily pumping compressor).

Lost in translation: Sub harmonics as in natural harmonic distortion from subwoofer cabs when they are driven hard, you cant get away from it, always a higher frequency, not below the fundamental like a synth.

Mike
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Chris Carpenter

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Re: Bass Maximizers
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2011, 05:15:20 pm »

Lost in translation: Sub harmonics as in natural harmonic distortion from subwoofer cabs when they are driven hard, you cant get away from it, always a higher frequency, not below the fundamental like a synth.

Mike
Ah, so sub harmonics, as opposed to subharmonics  ;). Yeah, that's basically the idea behind it. Strangely, though, I find that maxxbass doesn't create so much of what I consider "mud", though I may have a different definition.
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Brad Weber

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Re: Bass Maximizers
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2011, 05:20:12 pm »

That's what I find so ironic about how many people apply these devices and what they think they are doing.  The way the MaxxBass works is actually to reduce the low frequency signal levels and create and/or increase the higher frequency harmonics that would be associated with that low frequency content.  So you actually get less physical low frequency output while adding to the higher frequency signal content, which may increase the mains signal level and thus require that you reduce the mains level to compensate.

So if you have a system with excess mains headroom and insufficient low frequency capability then it may help give the perception of greater low frequency output, but it is not really providing greater low frequency output, in fact it is normally reducing the low frequency content.


Err not quite. Remember energy distribution of fundamentals and harmonics. Below is the PSD of a 50Hz signal, and the "Maxxed" version. Note the level difference. That's why this system is so attractive to consumer equipment manufacturers, who use limited capability drivers.

Iain.
I'm not clear what you are disagreeing with in what I said.  I said that MaxxBass reduces the level of the low frequency fundamental and increases the level of, or introduces, the associated higher frequency harmonics.  In the charts you attached the processed signal apparently reduces the level of the 50Hz fundamental by around 17dB or so while introducing additional signal content at 100Hz, 150Hz and 200Hz, which would sum (assuming the signals to be in phase) with the levels of the natural harmonics.  This means that if the audio includes a 50Hz fundamental then with MaxxBass you may reduce the level of the 50Hz fundamental you have to reproduce significantly but you will also likely see an increase the levels in the 100-200Hz harmonics.  So your system has to handle those greater higher frequency levels and you'd seem to essentially be taking the 'load' of reproducing low frequency signals and using psychoacoustiocs to move that load up higher in frequency.
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Mike Christy

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Re: Bass Maximizers
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2011, 06:02:05 pm »

Ah, so sub harmonics, as opposed to subharmonics  ;). Yeah, that's basically the idea behind it. Strangely, though, I find that maxxbass doesn't create so much of what I consider "mud", though I may have a different definition.

Interesting, could be because the subs are being not driven hard into that harmonic distortion mode, and nice sounding even order harmonics are being introduced by the MB.

Guess I need a waves plug in now... GAS!  ;D
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Bass Maximizers
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2011, 06:02:05 pm »


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