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Author Topic: SLS Loudspeakers  (Read 12547 times)

nialle.travnik

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SLS Loudspeakers
« on: June 30, 2011, 11:51:59 PM »

Hello folks,

I just received our proposals from the two companies who are bidding on our new installation. For the mains, Company A is proposing two solutions, a high end (JBL) solution, and a medium-range (EV).

Company B is proposing an SLS Ribbon-line array.

Company A is subtly and politely dismissing the SLS stuff as underpowered, under-constructed and "new kids on the block".

Anyone have experience with this stuff? I have no idea what to think.
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Brad Weber

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Re: SLS Loudspeakers
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2011, 08:54:36 AM »

Hello folks,

I just received our proposals from the two companies who are bidding on our new installation. For the mains, Company A is proposing two solutions, a high end (JBL) solution, and a medium-range (EV).

Company B is proposing an SLS Ribbon-line array.

Company A is subtly and politely dismissing the SLS stuff as underpowered, under-constructed and "new kids on the block".

Anyone have experience with this stuff? I have no idea what to think.
Going just by brand name offers very little insight into the actual performance of what is proposed.  And knowing nothing about the goals or objectives for the systems provides limited basis for assessment of what is proposed.  In simple terms, you want a system that provides some, hopefully fairly well defined, functionality and performance.  Thus you need to assess what is proposed in the context of the overall system and how well it supports the goals and needs defined.  Simply addressing Brand A versus Brand B does neither of these.
 
So if you can tell us about the space, the goals defined for the system and more information on the proposed solutions then people can have a better basis for any comments.  And if there were little or no defined goals and expectations offered as a basis for the bids received then maybe you might want to consider defining what the church would consider a desired or acceptable result and then getting bids based on that information.
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: SLS Loudspeakers
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2011, 10:43:15 AM »

We have SLS Ribbon speaker systems for our mains and fills. They do the job nicely (and for new kids they are 5 plus years old)

What do the system plots from each vendor look like?  Are the building materials accurate?  What is the difference in SPL from best to worst seats? how many bad seats are there?

BTW if either vendor didn't model the room they are a non starter in my opinion.
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nialle.travnik

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Re: SLS Loudspeakers
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2011, 10:48:51 AM »

Going just by brand name offers very little insight into the actual performance of what is proposed.  And knowing nothing about the goals or objectives for the systems provides limited basis for assessment of what is proposed.  In simple terms, you want a system that provides some, hopefully fairly well defined, functionality and performance.  Thus you need to assess what is proposed in the context of the overall system and how well it supports the goals and needs defined.  Simply addressing Brand A versus Brand B does neither of these.
 
So if you can tell us about the space, the goals defined for the system and more information on the proposed solutions then people can have a better basis for any comments.  And if there were little or no defined goals and expectations offered as a basis for the bids received then maybe you might want to consider defining what the church would consider a desired or acceptable result and then getting bids based on that information.

Sure Brad. Here's what I know:

This is a 500 seat sanctuary. This is contemporary worship with a strong SPL. The company that proposed the SLS speakers has done a model from our finalized cad drawings with a visualized walkthrough. I haven't seen it yet, but they apparently did a software simulation of the speakers in that space and used it to base the recommendation. They are pushing wall and ceiling treatments off the bat.

I'm wondering if there are any quality or "pedrigree" concerns with this brand.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: SLS Loudspeakers
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2011, 10:56:32 AM »

Besides the obvious, did the two firms bidding offer references from other jobs that they have finished?  Ask their previous customers how happy they are with the work and systems they installed.

They will obviously steer you to happy customers, but unhappy customers are sometimes complicit in their unhappiness... insisting on a system too cheap to work.

Good luck.. time to do some homework.

JR
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nialle.travnik

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Re: SLS Loudspeakers
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2011, 11:08:54 AM »

We have SLS Ribbon speaker systems for our mains and fills. They do the job nicely (and for new kids they are 5 plus years old)

What do the system plots from each vendor look like?  Are the building materials accurate?  What is the difference in SPL from best to worst seats? how many bad seats are there?

BTW if either vendor didn't model the room they are a non starter in my opinion.

Company A didn't plot, he says it's coming. He's a major consultant in the area with lots of experience, well known of HOW, arena installations and does the rentals for most big acts that roll into town. I trust that he can do this, for now anyway.

How are you using the speakers? How many seats, space, volume?
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nialle.travnik

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Re: SLS Loudspeakers
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2011, 11:11:34 AM »

Besides the obvious, did the two firms bidding offer references from other jobs that they have finished?  Ask their previous customers how happy they are with the work and systems they installed.

They will obviously steer you to happy customers, but unhappy customers are sometimes complicit in their unhappiness... insisting on a system too cheap to work.

Good luck.. time to do some homework.

JR

Company A is a friend of our Pastor, and all the references check out. We've interviewed the Pastor of his latest HOW install and he was very pleased. Other references are also positive.

Company B is recommended by our architect. All glowing references.

They both seem very capable.
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: SLS Loudspeakers
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2011, 01:14:48 PM »

We have SLS Ribbon speaker systems for our mains and fills. They do the job nicely (and for new kids they are 5 plus years old)

What do the system plots from each vendor look like?  Are the building materials accurate?  What is the difference in SPL from best to worst seats? how many bad seats are there?

BTW if either vendor didn't model the room they are a non starter in my opinion.

Company A didn't plot, he says it's coming. He's a major consultant in the area with lots of experience, well known of HOW, arena installations and does the rentals for most big acts that roll into town. I trust that he can do this, for now anyway.

How are you using the speakers? How many seats, space, volume?

Complete different system except that they are SLS.

2  SLS 115RTs mounted in front centered on each half of the congregation (isle down the middle 2 smaller SLS speakers hung right below them and pointed slightly down for front fill.

60s rectangular building high ceiling, seats about 300  modern worship

Full story.  The speakers were chosen and installed by the sound guy before me.  He chose them based on hearing a demo at a show.  I didn't like the sound.  I brought in a pro, He modeled the room, then moved them to the existing location aimed them using test equipment and EQed them.  Now they work very well.
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Mike Pyle

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Re: SLS Loudspeakers
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2011, 01:53:18 PM »

Hello folks,

I just received our proposals from the two companies who are bidding on our new installation. For the mains, Company A is proposing two solutions, a high end (JBL) solution, and a medium-range (EV).

Company B is proposing an SLS Ribbon-line array.

Company A is subtly and politely dismissing the SLS stuff as underpowered, under-constructed and "new kids on the block".

Anyone have experience with this stuff? I have no idea what to think.

I have used SLS LS8695 columns for years now in portable applications. SLS has been well implemented in church and theater applications. IMO their products are very well constructed and sound excellent. I've covered 25,000 sq ft ballrooms with 1500+ attendance using four LS8695 columns plus appropriate subs, running amps delivering rms power levels, so I'm not sure what is meant by "underpowered".
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Michael Galica

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Re: SLS Loudspeakers
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2011, 05:43:51 PM »

I'm a huge fan of the SLS system I've mixed on.  Really clean.  It wasn't line array, but still the ribbon drivers.  Super clean mid and high range, very intelligible, a little lacking in bass response though -- but that would be fixed quite simply by adding a sub.  They were the kind of speakers I actually had to try and make sound bad, and were really easy to have sound good.

As to Company A's comments, the whole "new kid on the block" thing doesn't fly with my -- the aforementioned system is over 10 years old now.  I can't speak to underconstructed, but I've been able to push the dickens out of those speakers (which were still clean and clear as can be) just had to match em to the right amps first.
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Mike Galica

nialle.travnik

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Re: SLS Loudspeakers
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2011, 10:01:04 PM »

I'm a huge fan of the SLS system I've mixed on.  Really clean.  It wasn't line array, but still the ribbon drivers.  Super clean mid and high range, very intelligible, a little lacking in bass response though -- but that would be fixed quite simply by adding a sub.  They were the kind of speakers I actually had to try and make sound bad, and were really easy to have sound good.

As to Company A's comments, the whole "new kid on the block" thing doesn't fly with my -- the aforementioned system is over 10 years old now.  I can't speak to underconstructed, but I've been able to push the dickens out of those speakers (which were still clean and clear as can be) just had to match em to the right amps first.

I'm pretty sure the company pushing the SLS array wants to go with Crest amps, that's all I know there. Thanks for the help everyone.
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Brad Weber

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Re: SLS Loudspeakers
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2011, 10:39:21 AM »

Company A didn't plot, he says it's coming. He's a major consultant in the area with lots of experience, well known of HOW, arena installations and does the rentals for most big acts that roll into town. I trust that he can do this, for now anyway.
If they are proposing selling equipment and doing installation then they are a Dealer and/or Contractor rather than a Consultant.
 
Going back to the basics, is what matters to you what products are used or is it what the system does?  People may not immediately think that way but for most churches what really matters is how the system works and what it does.  Taking that to the next step, to effectively implement a competitive design/build approach you need to define your needs and goals in sufficient detail and in the same way to all of the bidders.  That information defines what is considered a desired or acceptable result and the basis for the design/build bids.  That information may be very detailed and could include identifying specific equipment preferences, but it should also address issues from a functional and operational aspect, i.e. what uses it should support, any specific performance expectations, the ease of use, etc. (and please avoid identifying performance/functional requirements and specific related equipment unless you have verified that they are compatible, having an Owner specify equipment that may not be able support the overall goals also defined is not a good situation for anyone).  The reason I bring this up is that whether Contractor A's comments are based on concerns over Contractor B's proposed solution meeting some defined goals, based on subjective opinion or based on a misunderstanding of your goals seems an important distinction.
 
Since I don't have that kind of information or know anything about the space, I can't comment on the proposed solutions.  However, I can easily see that in the absence of defined goals a company that routinely works in arenas and larger tour applications may view everything from that perspective, which may or may not be that applicable to your situation.  And that could easily lead to comments such as those offered.  Whether they are valid or not depends on what was defined in terms of your goals and expectations and if they were not adequately defined then there may be no good way of assessing the comments or what is proposed.  Company A may be saying that what Company B proposed is not a concert tour system, which may be valid but may also reflect their misinterprting your needs and goals.
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Re: SLS Loudspeakers
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2011, 10:39:21 AM »


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